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 Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed 
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Newb
Newb

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 pm
Posts: 5
Post Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed
Just bought a zuma, it had sat for a year or 2, currently need help figuring out why engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed, also with spark plug removed the oil is shooting out rather quickly when I try to turn it over with starter or kickstart.(after cranking for a few seconds a blue puddle has formed) the kickstart is very difficult to kick currently(seemingly impossible with spark plug in, difficult still with it removed), battery is due for replacement(jumped battery during all testing) Any help appreciated


EDIT - UPDATE - cylinder was full of oil, changed battery, starter clutch is failing(makes all kinds of crazy slamming noise but after manipulating it with my hand it changed noise and then after a second manipulation by me it started right up with no foul noise), runs now- waiting on new starter clutch to reassemble, got grime into the oil tank-wiped all visible stuff oil may remove tank for thorough cleaning (and more but hopefully not) for peace of mind


Last edited by gnome802 on Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:11 am, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:24 pm
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Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 109
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos derestricted variator and exhaust upjetted carb 2004 Zuma Dual Headlight Mod Malossi Wild Lion Exhaust
Post Re: Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed
Is this a stock zuma ?
What Year ?
Did you know who was riding it 2 year ago ?
Are you able to do a compression test ?
High compression could cause this hard start .
When Zumas are fully modded the electric start does not have enough power because of the compression and everyone uses there kick start .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 75 main jet needle down 1 clip 38 mph
2004 Zuma 43 mph Dual Headlight Malossi Wild lion exhaust 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich
2005 eton beamer still stock bbk on the way 35 mph


Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:04 am
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Newb

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 pm
Posts: 5
Post Re: Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed
went to compression test it and it pushed oil thru the tester(hopefully didn't ruin the gauge), I knew I was seeing too much oil but I chalked it up to leaving the cap off the reservoir+not having a plug in, was thinking it was releasing more than it should because of those 2 variables but Ive since screwed the cap back on the oil tank and put the compression tester in - in place of the plug- eliminating both parts of that hypothesis and the problem definitely remains. on the positive side after cleaning up inside of the variator cover and inspecting the kickstart gears(and finding nothing obviously wrong) the kickstart seems to be functioning much more smoothly. I wonder if I can solve(or at least test to see if the issue disappears) by emptying the oil and fuel tank and putting a small amount of premix in the fuel tank and trying to run it then(so there wont be any oil for it to pump too much of) is there any reason I cant/shouldn't try that? EDIT: It is an 04 and I think it is stock displacement, the guys kid owned it- he kept saying his son put a "hot pipe" on it and blew it up and they had to rebuild it, not sure if that was in reference to a BBK or an exhaust but in any case sounded like it was returned to stock afterwards, something inside the variator cover had purple on it so I imagine that's aftermarket, pretty sure it was the clutch.


Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:56 am
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Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 109
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos derestricted variator and exhaust upjetted carb 2004 Zuma Dual Headlight Mod Malossi Wild Lion Exhaust
Post Re: Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed
Yes you can run premix only from now until whenever
40 to one gas to oil ratio is what most use for stock motors .
If you run long term premix you will foul plugs more often if you idle or sstop and go riding so make sure you carry a spare plug with you.
With a scoot sitting that long you probably also need to do a full carb clean up.
If you rehook up the oil pump after testing just remember to bleed out the air .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 75 main jet needle down 1 clip 38 mph
2004 Zuma 43 mph Dual Headlight Malossi Wild lion exhaust 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich
2005 eton beamer still stock bbk on the way 35 mph


Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:18 pm
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Newb
Newb

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 pm
Posts: 5
Post Re: Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed
turning over almost too easy now(hitting starter with plug out it sounds like its turning over as fast or even faster than my gy6 does w/ plug out(and the battery on that one is in decent condition whereas this ones pretty much done), I doubt my compression tester is reliable anymore since it drops back down to 30ish psi instead of 0, but its reading low now(couldn't get reliable reading before it started jumping up from oil forcing its way into the tester again, will try again after I empty the oil) is it possible I messed up the rings turning it over with all that oil locking things up?


Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:45 am
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Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 109
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos derestricted variator and exhaust upjetted carb 2004 Zuma Dual Headlight Mod Malossi Wild Lion Exhaust
Post Re: Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed
My best guess is it was already cooked by the previous owner .
And you might have a rebuild in the future .
The only way to know for sure is take apart the cylinder and look
How low compression is it now ?
Is the plug firing or is it fouled from the oil ?

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 75 main jet needle down 1 clip 38 mph
2004 Zuma 43 mph Dual Headlight Malossi Wild lion exhaust 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich
2005 eton beamer still stock bbk on the way 35 mph


Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:54 pm
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Newb
Newb

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 pm
Posts: 5
Post Re: Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed
got it started!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the starter keeps making a buzzing or whirring sound like its spinning and not engaging? but if I turn it over with the kick starter a few times I can usually get it to switch to a slamming noise - which IIRC switched up to normal turning over sound and started(don't really wanna repeat this too much as it really didn't sound good, my other scoot (150cc gyc) will occasionally make a similar slamming noise but generally only once and then it goes right back to trying to start as usual(like this did, but with muuuuuch more effort and slamming) I took a video it shows the whirring noise and some of the slamming [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA3uijlUOOI[/youtube]


Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:27 pm
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Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 109
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos derestricted variator and exhaust upjetted carb 2004 Zuma Dual Headlight Mod Malossi Wild Lion Exhaust
Post Re: Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed
I listened to your video your starter is way louder than any of my 3 yamahas
They just spin and don't have the clunk sound .
Something must be getting hung up in the starter does it kick over with that same sound ?

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 75 main jet needle down 1 clip 38 mph
2004 Zuma 43 mph Dual Headlight Malossi Wild lion exhaust 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich
2005 eton beamer still stock bbk on the way 35 mph


Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:43 pm
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Newb

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 pm
Posts: 5
Post Re: Engine wont turn over unless spark plug is removed
zino18 wrote:
I listened to your video your satrter is way louder than any of my 3 yamahas
They just spin and don't have the clunk sound .
Something must be getting hung up in the starter does it kick over with that same sound ?

haven't managed to kick start it right yet(the kick start goes 75% of the way back up unless I pull it up the rest of the way right now)so im getting short strokes usually and have yet to succeed, but it doesn't make the noise when using the kickstart at all, I messed with the starter clutch and it started right up with no noise, don't understand exactly how it works so im unsure what part of it is bad but it certainly seems to me that mine is on its way out(basically completely done for rn) so ive ordered another.


So when I removed the fuel tank to clean it I had to remove the oil filler cap(to remove the big rubber piece that goes under both fill caps) and I dont know if I did it just then or if its been like this but there was some grease or dirt in the fill neck(solid enough to wipe with qtips but would've smeared under pressure), I was able to wipe out all visible specks with qtips easily, but obviously im worried that (whether it was like that for awhile or I did it just now- either way) there could be more down in the tank, Im not by the bike right now- how hard is it to remove the oil tank to make sure I get it all out and should I go as far as to remove the oil pump(how hard is this?) and clean it? I was thinking removing tank so I can be sure its clean and then bleeding(to bleed and to flush any stuff that may be in the line as well) Does it go thru the pump before where it lets out when its bled? am I just risking clogging the pump by trying to let it bleed out? (Im assuming the passages in the pump are tiny and easily clogged) I really want to have peace of mind when its all reassembled, thanks for your help so far guys I really appreciate it
(ps I think I can be relatively certain its all new grime- wish I was 100% positive but im not- because I just got the scooter and I added oil to the oil tank right after getting it and I wouldn't have poured new oil over crap in the fill neck ensuring it gets into the tank so if it was there I would've had to completely overlook that before which is unlikely but of course its possible)
't


Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:46 pm
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