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Rear pulley not opening completely
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Author:  Goshi [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Rear pulley not opening completely

I have found why I cant go much over 30mph on the bugeye I am rebuilding. It seems like the rear pulley won't fully open, even by hand. As a result, the belt won't go up in the variator and I hit top speed WAY early.

I'm not exactly sure it's a pulley from which model. It's pretty much the same as the one I had on my bugeye, with what seems to be a 2009 date stamp on it. I got the pulley already assembled with a 3-pad clutch and a stiff red contra (which might be changed once the issue gets fixed; the CVT tuning seems dead-on if not for the pulley not fully opening). Not sure if the clutch is a stock 3-pad or an aftermarket one... there's no brand markings on it.

I have hand-tested prying the pulley open, putting a belt in, and compared with another pulley I have (also mounted using a red Contra and a MHR Delta clutch). One clearly allows the belt to go deeper.

I am using a stock Yamaha belt, for the records. It's not brand new, but it used to work well with my MHR Team.

What could cause the rear pulley to not fully open?


Crappy potato quality picture. I made a purple mark on the variator and went for a run. It's not really visible, but it's somewhat matching the "wear" area of the variator. I forgot to take pictures of the pulley, but nothing seems off about it. It just looks like your typical rear pulley with a 3-pad clutch and a red contra.

Image

Author:  BioMedHMC [ Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

If you're not working with the rear clutch and pulley OFF the scoot at this point ... I'm thinking that you need to.

It's gotta open/close without any hang.ups.

Maybe it's needing a really good cleaning ?? ??

So ... the clutch doesn't have any slip ... it's the spring/pulley ??

Author:  Goshi [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

Yes, they're off the engine, but the pulley and clutch assembly is still together.

Clutch doesnt seem to be slipping... and as I said, when I try to open the pulley by hand and force the strap in, it won't go as far as another pulley I have around.

Author:  Skaap [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

take it apart and inspect.. also clean it!

then re-assemble if you don't find any faults... and test again.

it must open... unless you have a piece crap stuck inside the pulley.

Author:  Goshi [ Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

I havent taken it apart yet, because of the lack of proper tooling to open it up. Instead I tried another rear pulley assembly I had, that I know was working correctly (again with a red contra), and no dice, tops just under 30mph. So the pulley seems fine, but the CVT adjustments are most likely off the charts. I'm thinking the rollers are too lights and the contra too stiff for what's in there.


Rollers were at 5g (30g total), so I'm making a mix to bring them around 37.5g. Tomorrow I'll get some tools to open the clutch nut and change the contra to either a stock or white/soft one.

Author:  Skaap [ Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

so its not the rear pulley.

then the rollers are to light... or stiff contra.

also, maybe the rollers have moved... or worn?

Author:  Nick Batzdorf [ Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

I'm not sure what's going on, but your variator nut is screwed on too far. It should be flush with the end of the crank - there's just enough room to fit everything on and then tighten it.

I don't see the convex washer there, so maybe that's all, and in that case it doesn't affect how far the vario can close (and that's the issue - it's not closing enough, it's not that it's not opening enough!).

Do you have shims? Can you run without the shim washer?

Also, the belt normally doesn't go all the way up. But it should go farther up than that.

Author:  Goshi [ Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

Replaced the contra for a stock one. I now hit ~38mph on the stock counter. Is that about how fast a stock 50 should be going? I never rode a stock one :eng101:

But the contra is too soft and it's hesitating when you hit a hill or get back on the throttle. I've put in a yellow contra (we had no white readily available) along with heavier rollers and tomorrow I'll see how it goes. I'll also see if I can get a new belt. The one i have is used and I dont know how many miles it has.


I'm waiting on completing my starter assembly so I can put it in there and finalize the shimming behind the variator. It's possible that it isn't correctly positioned, but this isn't a stock bugeye variator, and it works for now. Also, convex washer?

Author:  minibowmatt [ Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

Goshi wrote:
Replaced the contra for a stock one. I now hit ~38mph on the stock counter. Is that about how fast a stock 50 should be going? I never rode a stock one :eng101:

But the contra is too soft and it's hesitating when you hit a hill or get back on the throttle. I've put in a yellow contra (we had no white readily available) along with heavier rollers and tomorrow I'll see how it goes. I'll also see if I can get a new belt. The one i have is used and I dont know how many miles it has.


I'm waiting on completing my starter assembly so I can put it in there and finalize the shimming behind the variator. It's possible that it isn't correctly positioned, but this isn't a stock bugeye variator, and it works for now. Also, convex washer?

the convex washer goes between the castle nut and variator nut.
I think 38 is in the ballpark for a stock scooter--- may be a little slow.

Author:  Nick Batzdorf [ Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

38 is what my bike did stock.

Obviously you can use heavier rollers and a stiffer contra spring.

Author:  Firehawk989 [ Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

Goshi wrote:
Replaced the contra for a stock one. I now hit ~38mph on the stock counter. Is that about how fast a stock 50 should be going? I never rode a stock one :eng101:

But the contra is too soft and it's hesitating when you hit a hill or get back on the throttle. I've put in a yellow contra (we had no white readily available) along with heavier rollers and tomorrow I'll see how it goes. I'll also see if I can get a new belt. The one i have is used and I dont know how many miles it has.


I'm waiting on completing my starter assembly so I can put it in there and finalize the shimming behind the variator. It's possible that it isn't correctly positioned, but this isn't a stock bugeye variator, and it works for now. Also, convex washer?


You can check the belt by measuring the width. New is 16.6mm, wear limit is 14.7mm I believe.

Author:  Goshi [ Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

Firehawk989 wrote:
Goshi wrote:
Replaced the contra for a stock one. I now hit ~38mph on the stock counter. Is that about how fast a stock 50 should be going? I never rode a stock one :eng101:

But the contra is too soft and it's hesitating when you hit a hill or get back on the throttle. I've put in a yellow contra (we had no white readily available) along with heavier rollers and tomorrow I'll see how it goes. I'll also see if I can get a new belt. The one i have is used and I dont know how many miles it has.


I'm waiting on completing my starter assembly so I can put it in there and finalize the shimming behind the variator. It's possible that it isn't correctly positioned, but this isn't a stock bugeye variator, and it works for now. Also, convex washer?


You can check the belt by measuring the width. New is 16.6mm, wear limit is 14.7mm I believe.

Thanks, I'll measure it tomorrow.

Got the tuning down... used the softest yellow contra I had around (still stiffer than a stock), using my hand pushing it down as a comparison, and settled with 5G rollers all around. Pulls "hard" till top speed, and little hesitation when getting back on the throttle.

Now it's making some sort of.... hiccups... when I hold it at WOT. Like, brief hesitations. But I'm low on gas, could that be it?

Author:  Goshi [ Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

New strap helped a bit. Bogs a lot once well warmed up... it could be heating a bit. My engine cover isn't correctly fixed, so I'm gonna tie-wrap it better. I'm also going to try another variator, we believe this one sucks sweaty donkey balls.

A tuner friend also thinks it's running a bit rich. So we'll bring the jet down.

Author:  Chryptachronic [ Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

Did you ever figure this out?

Im having the same issue with my rear pully not closing all the way. Only riding 50% of the way up the variator. 2000rpm spring, malossi multivar. Tried 4g dr pully rollers and and 6g rollers with little to no difference. Nyc rear pully. Too high rpms when WOT i can deff feel it.
When i try to close the rear pully by hand the belt wont go all the way down. Close to 50% of the way.

Author:  ukrainewomendty [ Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rear pulley not opening completely

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