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 Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue 
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Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 109
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
Hi guys just reposting here since this area of the forum is where the active users are.

Im new here and have just been lurking for a while so I decided to join. Anyways I have a Yamaha Zuma 1998 fully stock except I had to install a pod filter (I did internally restrict the airflow with a washer) since the airbox was missing.

So basically the acceleration is a bit delayed when I start from idle and give it about 20% throttle. After a bit, the moped boosts very quickly. Do you know what the reason for this delayed acceleration is? The pod filter sounds like it is puffing like "Put PuT PuT puT" and increases in speed as I increase the throttle until it just sounds normal. I have no idea why the acceleration is so slow at the start and suddenly I get a surge of power. It makes it hard for me to maneuver the moped at slow speed <10km/h.

Also, when I go down hills with full throttle, I max out at 55km/h. I can't seem to go past this speed as though the moped is no longer accelerating. Any idea how to bypass this?

Thanks again for your help!

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug
-70cc Athena BBK (BR9HS plug)
-Stage6 Straight Cut 14/42 Gears -> 9.9 : 1 final drive
-Stock variator (6g rollers -> 8mm sharpie test)
-17.5mm Dellorto Carb (84MJ, clip in middle position)

Current max speed ~67kmh (GPS verified)

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:15 am
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
Restricted airflow would be reason .
It is how some scooters are restricted by the factory to keep speed down .
Pod filters add nothing to a stock engine but problems very hard to tune.
Spend 30 bucks and buy a stock air box off ebay or amazon before you cook it .
Being a prebug properly tuned all stock will push low 40's .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe derestricted stock variator stock carb 72 mikuni main one clip rich
45 mph still breaking in Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 82 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich


Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:08 pm
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Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
Buy a replacement air box or try and properly jet your carb to your air filter that will mean new larger pilot jet diffrent taper needle and larger main jet. By shoving a washer in it you just took a guess at how much to restrict to try and mimic the oem air box. My guess is you are still running lean as duck.

Finding an oem air box is no problem as they until recently ran the exact same engine on the euro zumas

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Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:37 pm
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Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 109
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
jmkjr72 wrote:
Buy a replacement air box or try and properly jet your carb to your air filter that will mean new larger pilot jet diffrent taper needle and larger main jet. By shoving a washer in it you just took a guess at how much to restrict to try and mimic the oem air box. My guess is you are still running lean as duck.

Finding an oem air box is no problem as they until recently ran the exact same engine on the euro zumas


Ok so I have temporarily stopped using my moped until my airbox arrives from the US (can you believe that not one wrecker had a prebug airbox in stock!). One thing to note is that my friend used it before me and seized it because he was running it with no air filter so it was running super super lean which I think overheated the whole moped. I also overheated and seized this thing two times now so I think my bore and the piston is absolutely toasted (I first seized while I had 10W-30 in the engine oil box which was super bad). Now I am thinking that while I am waiting for my airbox, I should get a new big bore kit and I wanted some opinions/ your recommendations from your experience here on the forums.

I want to get this zuma to run stable without seizing anymore and if possible increase my top speed (currently at 57kmh (~35mph)).

I have decided to buy an athena 70cc BBK: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ATHENA-CYLI ... 2650258465
and I want to keep the pipe, carb and variator stock (as buying exhausts and variatiors are way too expensive since I have to buy it internationally where shipping is a lot to Australia or the items already here are ridiculously overpriced like $300-500 for an exhaust)
I was wondering what small mods I could do to make it run reliably on this 70cc bbk.

-I know I can upjet my carb but not sure on what size to start as I have read around here and people have very different opinions.
-Is changing the clutch springs to yellow ones worth it?
-Replacing my stock sliders with 5gram dr pulley sliders?
-Getting a new Yamaha v belt (as I do not think this belt was ever changed since 1998 as it was only driven for 2800kms (~1700miles))

Thanks for your help and look forward to your reply

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug
-70cc Athena BBK (BR9HS plug)
-Stage6 Straight Cut 14/42 Gears -> 9.9 : 1 final drive
-Stock variator (6g rollers -> 8mm sharpie test)
-17.5mm Dellorto Carb (84MJ, clip in middle position)

Current max speed ~67kmh (GPS verified)

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:56 am
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
Slow down go one piece at a time so you can learn as you go
If you go with the athena bbk conventional wisdom is upgrade the carb to 17.5mm or bettter for cooling.
Others just upgrade the jets for oem carb and use the largest base gasket to lower compression and avoid revving the piss out of it.

The athena is a awesome kit keeping it cool is key .
Keeping stock exhaust helps keep rpms down

Focus on carb air box first
Have you tuned carbs before ?
Have you done plug chops?
What carb do you have ?
Do you have a source for jets Like a Yamaha dealer ?

Wait on the clutch springs and sliders
Let us know how it rides after the kit
Then we can give you a little guidance on tuning the transmission .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe derestricted stock variator stock carb 72 mikuni main one clip rich
45 mph still breaking in Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 82 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich


Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:38 pm
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Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 109
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
zino18 wrote:
Slow down go one piece at a time so you can learn as you go
If you go with the athena bbk conventional wisdom is upgrade the carb to 17.5mm or bettter for cooling.
Others just upgrade the jets for oem carb and use the largest base gasket to lower compression and avoid revving the piss out of it.

The athena is a awesome kit keeping it cool is key .
Keeping stock exhaust helps keep rpms down

Focus on carb air box first
Have you tuned carbs before ?
Have you done plug chops?
What carb do you have ?
Do you have a source for jets Like a Yamaha dealer ?

Wait on the clutch springs and sliders
Let us know how it rides after the kit
Then we can give you a little guidance on tuning the transmission .


I have tried multiple times to tune my current (stock) carb but because of this open-style air pod filter, I'd say it was almost impossible. I am confident I will easily be able to tune the current stock carb or any future once this airbox comes in.
I have heard people talk about it but have no idea what it is. I'll do a bit of research but if you can give a brief explanation that would be great as well.
I have a local Yamaha Dealer so yes I can get jets no problem.

I'll wait on upgrading any tranny tuning parts as per your advice.

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug
-70cc Athena BBK (BR9HS plug)
-Stage6 Straight Cut 14/42 Gears -> 9.9 : 1 final drive
-Stock variator (6g rollers -> 8mm sharpie test)
-17.5mm Dellorto Carb (84MJ, clip in middle position)

Current max speed ~67kmh (GPS verified)

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:53 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
Tuning carburetor
Raising the needle by moving the e clip down 1 notch closer to pointy end richens the mixture
Upjetting would be changing the main jet to a larger size.
A lean main jet will sound zingy and a rich main will sound lower .

It is really simple actually
warm up the scoot with a old plug
Put a new plug in and run wide open for about 1-2 miles hit the killswitch while holding throttle at wide open position .
Put the old plug in ride home .
Hacksaw the plug and look for a No.2 pencil lead size smoke line at the bottom of the plug is perfect.
No line real bad
Small line a little lean
Larger than a pencil lead line a little rich.

After you have the right main jet .
Then repeat process at half throttle to dial in needle .
Hit the killswitch and hold throttle at the half throttle position.

The idle jet on the stock carb can be done by rpm sound /tachometer or through the same plug chop method .

A box of plugs is way cheaper than a new cylinder.

When doing plug chops you want to start with too big of main jet and work your way down.

Here are my notes from my actual vino chops for the main.
I put in a 80 mikuni 11/22 way to rich I could tell without the plug chop that it was too big because the the bike bogged down and got slower .
75 way better close to right on
70 smoke line was close but a little on thin side
The stock 64 tk jet and 70 mikuni were real close to the same smoke line .
I bought a 72 and it looks perfect.

The needle I was able to dial with one plug chop.
Ran down the road about a 1/2 mile 1/2 throttle clip in middle position reving between 1/4 to 3/4 throttle and listened to sound and throtttle response . It sounded zingy.
Moved the clip down 1 notch richer .
With a warm engine ran down the road just over a mile Killswitch/old plug/Drove home/Hacksaw/ Perfect smoke line .

Once you do this a few times you will be able just hear and feel whats right.
I still chop to make sure .
I just use a lighted magnifying glass instead of a hack saw now that i know what to look for .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe derestricted stock variator stock carb 72 mikuni main one clip rich
45 mph still breaking in Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 82 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich


Last edited by zino18 on Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:25 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
While you are waiting for your airbox
Take out the main jet
Take them to the dealer and see if they have a 10% larger and 5% larger size .
Make note of the pilot jet ordering one size up would be probably all you might need .
in the states this would be less than 20 bucks .
As far as tuning rollers there are sets you can buy or you can buy a set of real light ones say 4 grams with a gram scale add aluminum foil packed in to half the rollers then the other 1/2 and with the stock rollers would give you 6 combinations to make notes on which works best.

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe derestricted stock variator stock carb 72 mikuni main one clip rich
45 mph still breaking in Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 82 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich


Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:41 pm
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Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 109
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
zino18 wrote:
While you are waiting for your airbox
Take out the main jet
Take them to the dealer and see if they have a 10% larger and 5% larger size .
Make note of the pilot jet ordering one size up would be probably all you might need .
in the states this would be less than 20 bucks .
As far as tuning rollers there are sets you can buy or you can buy a set of real light ones say 4 grams with a gram scale add aluminum foil packed in to half the rollers then the other 1/2 and with the stock rollers would give you 6 combinations to make notes on which works best.


Thanks for the info.

I have purchased the following:
-70CC BBK from the link above
-x6 4gram rollers
-x6 BR9HS plugs

Soon to buy:
-x2 main jet sizes (+5% and +10% from stock)
x1 pilot jet (Next sie up from stock)

One thing is I can't find a service manual for the prebug 1998 so I will call up the dealer to see what the stock main jet and pilot jet sizes are and order online.

I will resume this thread/ PM you in about a month or two as that is when the airbox and 70cc bbk kit should arrive.

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug
-70cc Athena BBK (BR9HS plug)
-Stage6 Straight Cut 14/42 Gears -> 9.9 : 1 final drive
-Stock variator (6g rollers -> 8mm sharpie test)
-17.5mm Dellorto Carb (84MJ, clip in middle position)

Current max speed ~67kmh (GPS verified)

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:51 am
Profile
Bronze Member
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
To be safe take the Jets out and see if they are TK which is the Carb for the Bugeye in the states or DEllorto which is the stock Carb for the prebug.
I am not sure if you have the same exact carb Being in Austarilia.
I would take them out and check to make sure you get right size and type .
The service manual is on forum that I cross referenced .
That bbk is a awesome upgrade by the way tuned right with the prebug gears and weight 75 kph to 85kph is doable

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe derestricted stock variator stock carb 72 mikuni main one clip rich
45 mph still breaking in Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 82 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich


Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:01 am
Profile
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
Here is the prebug manual on this forum
http://www.zumaforums.net/prebugservice.pdf

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe derestricted stock variator stock carb 72 mikuni main one clip rich
45 mph still breaking in Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 82 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich


Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:04 am
Profile
Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 109
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
zino18 wrote:
To be safe take the Jets out and see if they are TK which is the Carb for the Bugeye in the states or DEllorto which is the stock Carb for the prebug.
I am not sure if you have the same exact carb Being in Austarilia.
I would take them out and check to make sure you get right size and type .
The service manual is on forum that I cross referenced .
That bbk is a awesome upgrade by the way tuned right with the prebug gears and weight 75 kph to 85kph is doable


I talked to the Yamaha dealer and they didnt have any different main jets or pilot jets for my zuma. They referred me to someone else and they pretty much told me to get a 19mm Dellorto Carb. I am gonna go ahead and buy one of those now but wondering will I still need to change main jets, air jets and do plug chopping?

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug
-70cc Athena BBK (BR9HS plug)
-Stage6 Straight Cut 14/42 Gears -> 9.9 : 1 final drive
-Stock variator (6g rollers -> 8mm sharpie test)
-17.5mm Dellorto Carb (84MJ, clip in middle position)

Current max speed ~67kmh (GPS verified)

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:27 pm
Profile
Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 109
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
Nevermind I will just buy some mainjets and pilot jets from ebay

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug
-70cc Athena BBK (BR9HS plug)
-Stage6 Straight Cut 14/42 Gears -> 9.9 : 1 final drive
-Stock variator (6g rollers -> 8mm sharpie test)
-17.5mm Dellorto Carb (84MJ, clip in middle position)

Current max speed ~67kmh (GPS verified)

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:47 pm
Profile
Bronze Member
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
The 19mm dellorto is the go to carb on here Tuned right that will scream down the road and keep the engine cool.
Plenty of athena build with that carb to model after on here .
I always buy at least one jet bigger than i will need on the main.
Tempature and elevation effect jetting a 84 is a tad rich for me in summer perfect in winter while other people run a 82 all year.

Plug chop will save you from replacing your engine .
A box of plugs 20 bucks athena bbk 200 bucks
After you install the engine it is the best way to make sure you have the jets and needles right.

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe derestricted stock variator stock carb 72 mikuni main one clip rich
45 mph still breaking in Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 82 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich


Last edited by zino18 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:57 pm
Profile
Bronze Member
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Yamaha 1998 acceleration and top speed issue
You posted while I was typing .
Jets are so cheap you might as well have the perfect ones for your set up and where you ride elevtion and temature range wise

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe derestricted stock variator stock carb 72 mikuni main one clip rich
45 mph still breaking in Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 82 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich


Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:59 pm
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