View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:18 pm



Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
 YAMAHA ZUMA BUGEYE 50 - liquid cooled swap's 
Author Message
Scooterologist

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:12 pm
Posts: 67
scooters and mods: 08 zuma throttle modded leo vince zx pipe clutch springs malossi cats iron sport 70cc 95main jet red chinese hard contra
Post YAMAHA ZUMA BUGEYE 50 - liquid cooled swap's
List ur radiator swap losations and pics thinking of doing an polini 94cc or the likes but dont have any good ideas wher to put a radiator and keep my lights dont have any examples of what shape or size these are.i know dirt bikes have pretty small rads but dont really have some lieing around hope someone here has already done done some im shure hopeing for some input

I was going to send my engine to Hilo Hawaii to Darin Akiama at N4S Motorwerx

Need4speedwerx@hotmail.com to get this built because for building and porting Yamaha Zuma engines he is the best.


Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:03 pm
Profile
Forum moderator
Forum moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:27 pm
Posts: 14863
Location: portage wi
scooters and mods: 08 zuma dual headlight tmod rally kit cutom red paint koso mirros red anodized trans bolts
Post Re: liquid cooled swap's
i cut the plastic out behind the front tire and mounted mine to the down tube
i also had to cut out the back side of the leg sheild for air flow
i started with a single dirt bike rad now im working on swaping over to a dual rad set up from a yz250 i belive thats what i got the rads from

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=2869
check out page 8 and there some pics of the old rad set up
the new one that im working on i hope to have less impact on the plastics
and run a double seg shield to hid the rads

_________________
2008 zuma dual headlight mod koso mirrors liquid cooled polini corsa kit leo vince zx stage 6 variator rally kit custom red paintFUEL INJECTEDsoon to be 100cc
2008 stella olive custom ported 177 cc kit dechromed ford tear drop tail light alive and breathing and awaiting cosmtic surgery thanks to an trump cager
1985 elite 150 how long can i leave it stock


Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:09 pm
Profile
Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:58 am
Posts: 64
Post Re: liquid cooled swap's
Curious as to why going to all the effort of a Water cooled conversion?
Don't misunderstand.. I fielded TZ350's for Yamaha in early 70's . Water coolers were New then. Does reduce noises 'some', if that matters.
LC gives a measured 5% power advantage over the Aircooled version of the identical engine design..only after heat soak sets in tho.. ~ 3rd or 4th lap on a longish track.
Other issue is that LC can also keep it either too hot OR too cold :-) 55 degress Celcius is the Track ideal for max power, 80 C for street uses and reasonable engine life.
Be SURE you fit a Thermostat ! regardless of whatever else you do.. if not.. you would be better off not water cooling the pore thing.
Just a heads up :-)


Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:35 pm
Profile
Forum moderator
Forum moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:27 pm
Posts: 14863
Location: portage wi
scooters and mods: 08 zuma dual headlight tmod rally kit cutom red paint koso mirros red anodized trans bolts
Post Re: liquid cooled swap's
oh i dont know maybe becuse the fastest oem 50cc hm scoots out there are liquid cooled

thats if you use the exact same parts

but with liquid cooled you can get a lot more agressive with your parts and not have to worry about the heat as much

you can run on the raged edge of lean and not kill it

also you are talking about track use vrs street use

i can run all day and not loose power yet my counter parts with ac end up lagaing back after a bit

_________________
2008 zuma dual headlight mod koso mirrors liquid cooled polini corsa kit leo vince zx stage 6 variator rally kit custom red paintFUEL INJECTEDsoon to be 100cc
2008 stella olive custom ported 177 cc kit dechromed ford tear drop tail light alive and breathing and awaiting cosmtic surgery thanks to an trump cager
1985 elite 150 how long can i leave it stock


Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:48 pm
Profile
Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:14 am
Posts: 981
Post Re: liquid cooled swap's
Most people put them somewhere in the knee plastic area, behind the wheel. I know a guy with a dual radiator support (he made a very nice looking setup, with Yamaha cutouts in the knee panel), but its too much cooling for a Racing and he has to cover them up depending on the ride style and ambient temps.

that said people usually use dirt bikes/MX rads as they are small and usually already mounted up front so it is easier to make brackets on our scooters.

_________________
'94 Yamaha Jog - MHR BigBore 77cc, Yasuni C30, Stage6 HPC 12mm, MHR Digital Direct + EPROM 3 CDI, Dell'Orto VHST 28mm BS, Stage6 Big Valve intake, Stage6 NBR reeds, Malossi MHR Overrange 2005, Stage6 Torque Control + Stage6 CNC 450g bell, 14/46 primary gears


Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:11 pm
Profile
Scooterologist

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:58 am
Posts: 64
Post Re: liquid cooled swap's
Again: LC gave 5% advantage over AC once heat soak set in on identical design engines, during... race... conditions.
I remember several Yama Engineers would likely have sold their children for an extra % point. The AC bikes were Faster..certainly so before heat soak, causing memorably serious concerns amongst the 'Geers.
NO street 2t can run even close to the ragged edge of lean. Certainly welcome to explore that one for yourself tho.
I suspect your notions of 'ragged edge' and 'lean' are markedly differing than mine. No matter, not my problem :-).
Tighter tolerances are possible with LC.. does it make a palpable Perf difference? Not so much as believed, see: AC engines were faster, above.
5% is say what? 1/4 ~1/2 hp under Ideal (full race engine ) conditions. Optimistically half of that on a DIY scooty engine.
Likely the perf difference between a full and half fuel fuel tank.

IF your scooty engine is quicker than your buddies.. congrats. Although I suspect that's due to your wrenching skills or their lack of.
Attributing it directly to LC is 'optimistic', if not missleading.
I like LC :-) it was on my TZ's and those won more than a few races. Although in racing everyone behaves like lemmings, once a new tecno upgrade surfaces, everyone rushes to copy.
AC engines are much simpler to work on though... give a thought as to what one is discarding, for imo small advantage on your urban use milkstool.
Would I bother to convert my BWS? Not a hope.
When I choose to go fast I have a couple of Yamahas and a Honda in my garage.


Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:52 am
Profile
Forum moderator
Forum moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:27 pm
Posts: 14863
Location: portage wi
scooters and mods: 08 zuma dual headlight tmod rally kit cutom red paint koso mirros red anodized trans bolts
Post Re: liquid cooled swap's
danilo wrote:
Again: LC gave 5% advantage over AC once heat soak set in on identical design engines, during... race... conditions.
I remember several Yama Engineers would likely have sold their children for an extra % point. The AC bikes were Faster..certainly so before heat soak, causing memorably serious concerns amongst the 'Geers.
NO street 2t can run even close to the ragged edge of lean. Certainly welcome to explore that one for yourself tho.
I suspect your notions of 'ragged edge' and 'lean' are markedly differing than mine. No matter, not my problem :-).
Tighter tolerances are possible with LC.. does it make a palpable Perf difference? Not so much as believed, see: AC engines were faster, above.
5% is say what? 1/4 ~1/2 hp under Ideal (full race engine ) conditions. Optimistically half of that on a DIY scooty engine.
Likely the perf difference between a full and half fuel fuel tank.

IF your scooty engine is quicker than your buddies.. congrats. Although I suspect that's due to your wrenching skills or their lack of.
Attributing it directly to LC is 'optimistic', if not missleading.
I like LC :-) it was on my TZ's and those won more than a few races. Although in racing everyone behaves like lemmings, once a new tecno upgrade surfaces, everyone rushes to copy.
AC engines are much simpler to work on though... give a thought as to what one is discarding, for imo small advantage on your urban use milkstool.
Would I bother to convert my BWS? Not a hope.
When I choose to go fast I have a couple of Yamahas and a Honda in my garage.



then explain why when kymco changed the super 9 from lc to ac it became a dog
why the lc oem versions of the same scooters are always faster then there ac counter part

you forget you are talking about open air cooled bikes not force air cooled bikes like our scooters

_________________
2008 zuma dual headlight mod koso mirrors liquid cooled polini corsa kit leo vince zx stage 6 variator rally kit custom red paintFUEL INJECTEDsoon to be 100cc
2008 stella olive custom ported 177 cc kit dechromed ford tear drop tail light alive and breathing and awaiting cosmtic surgery thanks to an trump cager
1985 elite 150 how long can i leave it stock


Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:09 pm
Profile
Silver Member
Silver Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 930
Location: USA
scooters and mods: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25587
Post Re: liquid cooled swap's
the good thing about liquid cooled vs air cooled is the power to control cyl temps better which allows you to fine tune your bikes jetting leaner which gives you more power. also have a controlled temp allows for a better power band. a air cooled bike will need the car tuned each seasion for temps outside and in my case in florida during the fall to spring months it can go in one day from 80 degrees to 40 and back the next day, my air coolect prebug some days runs alot more richer then others and my water cooled bugeye runs more steady with the jetting.

things to have thoe is a egt and a water temp guage so you can tune correctly and adjust the timing. alot of guys put 70cc kits but never adjust the timing correctly, also port matching the case will not only affect power and mpg it can also affect cyl temps as well.

At the end of the day liquid cooled motors are better especally in stock form on stock motors, this is why the honda met comes liquid cooled 4t and now the new zuma is liquid cooled 4t fuel injected. the only pain in the butt part is adding liquid coolect to a air cooled bike. figureing out rad location, mechanical water pump or electric. coolant tube routeing, adjusting water pressure to control temps, spark plug heat range.

on rad selection i used a nissan titan power steering cooler and mouted it to my leg sheld and welded mounts to my frame for it. i went with a style pro electric water pump with a speed controller to control the pump, i got the clear water tube from ace hardware, for water temp im useing a stage 6 rpm/temp controoler

_________________
MY 2000 PREBUG PHOTOS -----> viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25587


Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:03 am
Profile
Newb
Newb
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:15 am
Posts: 8
Location: Reno, NV
scooters and mods: 2004 Zuma Malossi RHQ Crankshaft 10mm Stage6 Dellorto RACING MKII 21mm carb Cylinder kit Stage6 racing aluminum 70cc-10
Post Re: liquid cooled swap's
I am currently in the middle of a liquid cooled swap and am starting to question the build. Not too sure if there is a right way or a wrong way. It seems to be that this is straight DIY and figure it out kind of project as there is little to no info on the little details of putting one of these together.

1st question: Where should the water pump be placed in the loop? Closest to the engine? Pushing or pulling if that makes any sense.

2nd question: How much pressure are we looking at when at its peak temperature?

3rd question: At this point, I'm not even sure what to ask as there are so many little questions that I have.


I have looked at all the liquid cooled threads on here and everywhere else online. Here seems to be the only place that has anything about this kind of modification.

Any info and or insight would be really helpful at this point. Anything that I absalootly need to get correct in order for this to not end up a total disaster.


Attachments:
IMG_1161.jpg
IMG_1161.jpg [ 537.88 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]
IMG_1160.jpg
IMG_1160.jpg [ 504.77 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]
IMG_1159.jpg
IMG_1159.jpg [ 800.99 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]
IMG_1158.jpg
IMG_1158.jpg [ 578.51 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]
IMG_1157.jpg
IMG_1157.jpg [ 659.23 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]
IMG_1156.jpg
IMG_1156.jpg [ 558.43 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]
IMG_1155.jpg
IMG_1155.jpg [ 818.07 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]
IMG_1154.jpg
IMG_1154.jpg [ 867.37 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]
IMG_1153.jpg
IMG_1153.jpg [ 744.8 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]
IMG_1152.jpg
IMG_1152.jpg [ 877.88 KiB | Viewed 94 times ]

_________________
[b]2004 Yamaha Zuma

~ Malossi RHQ Crankshaft 10mm
~ Stage6 Aluminum 70cc big bore 70cc
(blew a hole through bottom of piston)
~ Latest Update: Malossi MHR Replica Aluminium 70cc
(Looking into Liquid conversion)
~ 21mm Dortello black edition carb (with choke cable)
~ 100 main jet/ 50 slow
~ Polini Gear Set 13/44
~ Polini Variator
~ 4g Dr. Pulley Sliders
~ Dr. Pulley Clutch & Bell Kit
~ Yasuni "Scooter R" Exhaust (de-restricted)
~ Malossi Intake Manifold 22mm
~ Stage6 V-Force3 Reed Valve
~ Stock airbox modified
~ Doppler racing rear shock absorber
~ Headlight Mod
(Debating on installing the Polini Boost Bottle)
Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:01 am
Profile
Forum moderator
Forum moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:27 pm
Posts: 14863
Location: portage wi
scooters and mods: 08 zuma dual headlight tmod rally kit cutom red paint koso mirros red anodized trans bolts
Post Re: liquid cooled swap's
I ran a mechanical water pump right on the engine where the fan was
I think I had a 12 psi cap but can’t remeber

You may get more help over on 49cc scoot as they are more active and a few racers over there pig stops by here from time to time but more over there

_________________
2008 zuma dual headlight mod koso mirrors liquid cooled polini corsa kit leo vince zx stage 6 variator rally kit custom red paintFUEL INJECTEDsoon to be 100cc
2008 stella olive custom ported 177 cc kit dechromed ford tear drop tail light alive and breathing and awaiting cosmtic surgery thanks to an trump cager
1985 elite 150 how long can i leave it stock


Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:34 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 10 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.