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 New battery! Ballistic Battery 
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
The Ballistic Battery is much much lighter in weight, they are also able to provide more Amp/Hrs and a higher CCA of a comparably sized AGM battery. Because they are smaller, you can either upgrade the size and thus the output of the battery or you can have a backup/jumper battery if you go with the smaller 4 cell battery... I personally would just get the larger 8 cell battery and not have to worry about having enough CCA or capacity for various accessories. These batteries can be discharged much much lower than an AGM battery and then recharged (with the proprietary lithium-ion cell balancing charger) to full capacity without it harming the battery. Just don't go below 3-5% on a full discharge, because it could be a very difficult process to recover the battery. Most Li-Ion batteries have a built in discharge limit that prevents this from happening, just don't rely on it.

A standard Battery Tender will work to recharge the Li-Ion batteries; however, over time and frequent use of the Battery Tender, it can unbalance the charge of the Li-Ion Cells and this will reduce the capacity, output, and expected lifetime of the battery. This is why the proprietary Li-Ion charger is also needed. It also helps to use this proprietary charger on occasion to properly rebalanced/equalize the charge of each Li-Ion cell. Depending on the total load placed on the Li-Ion battery the stator can keep the Li-Ion battery fully charged; however, if the battery is drained slowly over time (especially when you take frequent short trips with low RPMs on the motor), this is where the proprietary Li-Ion battery charger can restore an equalized full charge to each individual cell within the battery. A standard Battery Tender will recharge the battery; however, it has no control over charging the individual Li-Ion cells... When any one of the cells has been completely recharged, the Battery Tender will stop charging and register the battery as completely recharged. However, some of the cells within the Li-Ion battery can still only have a partial charge. This is how a Li-Ion battery can loose it's rated output/capacity/expected lifetime and why the proprietary Li-Ion battery charger is necessary.

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:32 am
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
That's why I never got one ... but wanted to.

The charger !!

I could have handled the increased price, the smaller physical size, the increased current ...
I just didn't want to need the different charger.
and
My battery guys never said that it was all right to use my Battery Tenders on a Li-Ion.
or
I'd already have one in my scoot.

SO ... deal breaker for me.

I'm very happy replacing and doing charge maintenance with what I've got.

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:07 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
My hobby chargers charge lithium by each cell to get a balance. That's why I wonder how these really charge or how long they last. Not being balanced charged. With the cost so high I'm not willing to try

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:48 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
I agree with what you're saying.
Johnny's reply here is the first that I've read saying that it's OK to charge a Li-Ion witha Battery Tender.
The guys that I deal with who sell both here ... cautioned me against that.
I was there ... in the store ... ready to buy the Li-Ion. That's what I was there to purchase ...
walked out with the lead/acid battery spec'd for the scoot, instead (at their recommendation).
ZUMIKE wrote:
My hobby chargers charge lithium by each cell to get a balance.
That's why I wonder how these really charge or how long they last. Not being balanced charged.
With the cost so high I'm not willing to try

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:56 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
What I mean by it's ok to use a standard Battery Tender on a Li-Ion battery, is that it will charge the Li-Ion battery until one of the cells registers that it's fully charged by providing the necessary voltage feedback to trigger the battery tender to stop charging. At that point the battery will not be fully charged, because other cells within the Li-Ion battery will only be partially recharged. This is in a way no different than how your Li-Ion battery will be treated while it's in use on the scoot being recharged by the stator. The draw back is that without the recommended Li-Ion proprietary battery charger, the Li-Ion battery will not maintain it's designed output and lifespan unless you routinely revitalize the battery charge using the specific charger. It's not recommended to use a standard Battery Tender to recharge the Li-Ion battery because it's not really maintaining the battery relative to it's specific design and thus alters the Li-Ion battery's projected output and lifespan. To get the most from the Li-Ion batteries you should always use the proprietary Li-Ion battery charger.

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:15 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
so then during normal bike use the battery still will charge the same way correct

how long has these been out?

or is there a balancer charger for these all my hobby batteries have a separate balance plug that connects into a computer controlled charger along with the standard black and red heavy gauge wire or connector

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:20 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
Ballistic Batteries manufacture a Li-Ion Balanced Charger that has individual direct connections to each cell when it's connected to the battery. The interface connection may be proprietary to ballistic batteries, but the method is very similar to how the Li-Ion hobby/RC batteries are recharged via a computer controlled balance charger. Ballistic BMS Balance Charger

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JohnnyFYX Zuma 125 Build Thread «:::Mods Listed Here:::» RC Scooters Extreme 155cc BBK w/18,500+ Miles... Upgraded to RC Scooters/Taida +3.5mm Stroker 168cc BBK!
How-To: Fix All LED TurnSignal Flashing & NonFlashing Issues
How-To: BWS Asian HID Projector Headlight Retrofit
Taida King Cam (New In Box) For Sale: $90 Shipped
KillerScooter/BTX Foot Pegs/Bar (Scuff Marks & Slightly Bent Mounting Tabs, it Still Works Great!) For Sale: $50 Shipped
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Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:31 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
ZUMIKE wrote:
so then during normal bike use the battery still will charge the same way correct

how long has these been out?
He's referring that the normal stator/recharging circuitry ON THE SCOOT will charge the Li-Ion battery ...
in the same manner that the Battery Tender will charge it ... INCORRECTLY/UNBALANCED.

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:35 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
Ballistic also sells a standard battery charger on their website... it's very similar to the Battery Tender with one major exception. The standard battery charger on the Ballistic website does not have a battery maintenance/standby mode like the Battery Tenders do. When the battery is fully recharged, the battery charger turns off. The standby/maintenance mode of the Battery Tenders is not recommended by any Li-Ion battery manufacturers. So, if you do plan to use a Battery Tender on a Li-Ion battery, you should only allow it to recharge the battery and once it's recharged, you should disconnect the Battery Tender as soon as possible.

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JohnnyFYX Zuma 125 Build Thread «:::Mods Listed Here:::» RC Scooters Extreme 155cc BBK w/18,500+ Miles... Upgraded to RC Scooters/Taida +3.5mm Stroker 168cc BBK!
How-To: Fix All LED TurnSignal Flashing & NonFlashing Issues
How-To: BWS Asian HID Projector Headlight Retrofit
Taida King Cam (New In Box) For Sale: $90 Shipped
KillerScooter/BTX Foot Pegs/Bar (Scuff Marks & Slightly Bent Mounting Tabs, it Still Works Great!) For Sale: $50 Shipped
PM me for Pics...


Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:36 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
cool

didnt look to see what that costs but still I will stick with $60 batteries lead acid batteries
at least I know they will charge properly with the bikes system

maybe if newer bikes have that computer charger installed in the system or they can scale that down build into the battery I may think about it in the future
You would think make the battery the same size as lead acid but have that little charger inside the empty space

may be one of those things that are put out but not really researched fully enough
My friend put one in his bike he built and it went bad in a few weeks
not sure if it was his fault or just wouldnt take a charge it was probably the smallest size you can get

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2010 Zuma 155cc
BWS X Digital Gauges<>Clear Smoke BWS 125 Turn Signal Covers<>Billet Bar Ends<>Front Brake Rotor 260mm<>Razor Cam Covers<>NCY Breather Assembly<>Polini EVO Clutch Bell<>Anodized Orange Dipstick<>RRGS Front and Rear Shocks<>Dual 5000K HID's 35w High/Low Beam<>Black Adjustable Brake levers<>Halo Led's<>TST 2 Stage Variator 9gL 10gS <>NCY Oil Cooler<>Yamaha Skid Plate<>NCY Contra Spring Bearing<>1000 Rpm RRGS Contra Spring<>Yoshimura Exhaust<>NCY Direct Ignition Coil<>Lightweight Cooling Fan<>Koso Cable Clamps<>High Lift Cam+Lightened Cam Sprocket<>Underseat Storage Bag<>Stage 6 (Koso) Clutch<>Accel Handlebars<>Koso Brake Light<>Lightweight Swingarm<>RRGS 4 Pot Caliper (PH80)<>Stainless Braided Brake Line<>Lightened F|ywheel<>OEM Headlight Screens<>Zubiku Wing<>Air Horn<>9 inch stretch<>Koso High Flow Filter/Cover<>RPM 10 Spoke Wheels<>Digital Camo Vinyl Wrap<>SEP Cvt Covers





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Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:36 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
BioMedHMC wrote:
ZUMIKE wrote:
so then during normal bike use the battery still will charge the same way correct

how long has these been out?
He's referring that the normal stator/recharging circuitry ON THE SCOOT will charge the Li-Ion battery ...
in the same manner that the Battery Tender will charge it ... INCORRECTLY/UNBALANCED.



im well aware how these charge I have up to 6 cell 7500mah lithium batteries and they are very flammable if overcharged too which makes me wonder if they have a shutoff built into them from overcharging
last thing you want is one to catch fire

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2010 Zuma 155cc
BWS X Digital Gauges<>Clear Smoke BWS 125 Turn Signal Covers<>Billet Bar Ends<>Front Brake Rotor 260mm<>Razor Cam Covers<>NCY Breather Assembly<>Polini EVO Clutch Bell<>Anodized Orange Dipstick<>RRGS Front and Rear Shocks<>Dual 5000K HID's 35w High/Low Beam<>Black Adjustable Brake levers<>Halo Led's<>TST 2 Stage Variator 9gL 10gS <>NCY Oil Cooler<>Yamaha Skid Plate<>NCY Contra Spring Bearing<>1000 Rpm RRGS Contra Spring<>Yoshimura Exhaust<>NCY Direct Ignition Coil<>Lightweight Cooling Fan<>Koso Cable Clamps<>High Lift Cam+Lightened Cam Sprocket<>Underseat Storage Bag<>Stage 6 (Koso) Clutch<>Accel Handlebars<>Koso Brake Light<>Lightweight Swingarm<>RRGS 4 Pot Caliper (PH80)<>Stainless Braided Brake Line<>Lightened F|ywheel<>OEM Headlight Screens<>Zubiku Wing<>Air Horn<>9 inch stretch<>Koso High Flow Filter/Cover<>RPM 10 Spoke Wheels<>Digital Camo Vinyl Wrap<>SEP Cvt Covers





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Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:38 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
BioMedHMC wrote:
ZUMIKE wrote:
so then during normal bike use the battery still will charge the same way correct

how long has these been out?
He's referring that the normal stator/recharging circuitry ON THE SCOOT will charge the Li-Ion battery ...
in the same manner that the Battery Tender will charge it ... INCORRECTLY/UNBALANCED.


Yes, this is true. This is why a Li-Ion Balance Charger is necessary to maintain the expected lifespan and output capacity of the battery. You should only have to use the charger once every six months to a year if you rarely ride the scoot, or once a month or less if you frequently ride it depending on how much load the scoot and it's accessories place on the battery.

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JohnnyFYX Zuma 125 Build Thread «:::Mods Listed Here:::» RC Scooters Extreme 155cc BBK w/18,500+ Miles... Upgraded to RC Scooters/Taida +3.5mm Stroker 168cc BBK!
How-To: Fix All LED TurnSignal Flashing & NonFlashing Issues
How-To: BWS Asian HID Projector Headlight Retrofit
Taida King Cam (New In Box) For Sale: $90 Shipped
KillerScooter/BTX Foot Pegs/Bar (Scuff Marks & Slightly Bent Mounting Tabs, it Still Works Great!) For Sale: $50 Shipped
PM me for Pics...


Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:38 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
As we agreed ...
Perfectly happy (at the moment) with lead.acid

As you indicate your problems/experiences with over & unbalanced charging situations.
It makes me wonder if there's a way to use a Li-Ion battery on the scoot -and- not even try to recharge it.

That just sounds tooooooo busy to even look for a solution for ... since I don't have one.

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Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:47 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
It really depends on the situation that the battery is put in... if the scooter's entire load is no more than the stock load and you ride the scoot enough for the stator to charge the battery, it will stay fully charged for a long period of time without needing a properly balanced recharge... Maybe 6 months to a year to revitalize the battery. The same situation applies to someone who doesn't ride the scoot very often and lets the Li-Ion battery slowly discharge while it's in storage.

If the Li-Ion battery is being used on a scoot that has accessories and a total circuit load that is greater than the OEM total circuit load, then you would need to recharge the battery via an external charger (preferably the proprietary Li-Ion Battery balance charger) to keep it from dying. The good news is that if the Li-Ion battery gets discharged real low, it doesn't affect the life of the battery unless it's below the 3-5% charge state or as long as it doesn't remain fully discharged for extended periods of time. You can even recharge the battery using the Ballistic Standard Li-Ion Battery Charger (which doesn't provide a balance charge) to recharge the battery to a useable level. I would just consider using the balance charger on occasion to revitalize the original capacity, output, and overall lifespan of the battery. So the question is why bother using the Standard Charger if you should still use the balance charger on occasion? This is exactly why I would avoid even considering the Ballistic Batteries Standard Battery Charger in favor of the more expensive Balance Charger. It's worth the extra expense to charge the batteries properly from the get go vs. wasting money on a simple standard charger only to upgrade to the balance charger down the road. And this is why most people are turned off by the idea of investing in a Li-Ion battery... because of the larger up front expense to support and take advantage of the technology as recommended.

IMO, I'm happy with my existing AGM battery and the Battery Tender combo... It was relatively inexpensive and it has served me well so far... you just have to find a reputable battery manufacture and avoid the cheaper batteries so that you can expect a good overall battery lifespan. I'm considering the Ballistic Batteries for my next battery, but it depends on how many years I can get from my current battery before I take that route.

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JohnnyFYX Zuma 125 Build Thread «:::Mods Listed Here:::» RC Scooters Extreme 155cc BBK w/18,500+ Miles... Upgraded to RC Scooters/Taida +3.5mm Stroker 168cc BBK!
How-To: Fix All LED TurnSignal Flashing & NonFlashing Issues
How-To: BWS Asian HID Projector Headlight Retrofit
Taida King Cam (New In Box) For Sale: $90 Shipped
KillerScooter/BTX Foot Pegs/Bar (Scuff Marks & Slightly Bent Mounting Tabs, it Still Works Great!) For Sale: $50 Shipped
PM me for Pics...


Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:54 pm
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Post Re: New battery! Ballistic Battery
:D I've been running a ballistic on my ruck for the past year. So far not one hiccup. I highly recommend them.


Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:27 am
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