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 Torque Driver Failure 
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Post Torque Driver Failure
I was on my way from home from work this evening and noticed that something just was not right. Felt like something slipping in the tranny. I was thinking the belt and was babying it home with the hopes it would not snap on me. When I got home and removed the covers, I was confused with what I saw… dirty oil in the bottom of the tranny case and a broken o-ring. I could not remember any o-ring seals in the tranny, so I kept peeling things off until I saw something. Eventually, I found the culprit – the fixed sheave on the TD had broken off. The oil was liquidized grease and the o-ring was off the TD too. Belt and everything else was fine. Not sure if it is due to the increased heat and torque of the larger motor or whether it is just a defect that caused it. I ran out of time tonight, but I’ll be putting the stock TD back on tomorrow.


Johnnyfxy had a similar problem with his TD on a stock engine…

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=15126&p=199425


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Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:47 pm
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
200cc was the culprit
was it the stock one?

at least it didnt lock up the rear at full speed
wonder if other makes fit the scooter, ones off larger engine scooters

wonder if mine is next, thats the side my belt goes bad on

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Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:50 pm
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
It's easy to blame the 200cc, but Johnny had the same issue with a stock motor. I got this TD from Chris, not sure of the brand, but it was a complete unit, not just the one sheave.


Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:53 pm
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
was johnnys the other end?




well that sucks, I was going to get one of those if my belt goes bad again because thats the only thing I havent changed

hopefully it was just bad welding, I highly doubt heat would do anything because from what I can see I dont see any discoloration but I could see bad welds making the metal brittle, like all those 2 bros header pipes going bad, I think even your pipe cracked too


wonder if he will warranty it :wth:

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2010 Zuma 155cc
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Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:59 pm
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
This morning I put in the stock rear pulley with the battlescooter TD sheave and put in a brand new OEM belt. I put the OEM belt in for insurance, as I didn't know if the oil or the sharp edges on the other TD had done any damage that will show up later on down the road. I also found a nick on one of the front pulley faces that I smoothed out with some 400 grit emery cloth.

Ride to work went fine. For some reason, it seemed like a had a little more torque at the mid and top end. For instance, I was going 60 @ half throttle and rolled the throttle back and she had a little more oomph than before. I'm thinking this TD issue has been causing some performance issues for a while now and it has now just finally given up the ghost. Just the other day, I went to take off, and the engine revved like crazy, but took a few seconds to takeoff. And I have stalled out twice at a stop in the last week. Must have been something slipping in the rear pulley.

Anyway, I'm happy now. :q:


Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:08 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
I totally forgot about the battle scooter
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ordered one because when they decide to ship it, I will get it next day and its a great price

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Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:17 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
Yeah, seems to work well. I've had it sitting on my shelf for a few months, so this is the first I've used it. I used the 'straight' ramp rather than the 'boomerang' ramp. Am I correct in thinking this is the "more aggressive" ramp?
Very precise and robust welds on it. Only thing with this setup as opposed to a complete TD set is that is doesn't offer the "belt sits lower than stock for higher top speed" bonus.


Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:30 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
yeah I remember how some rub on the clutch, so they must open wider
well for the price its not bad, and ive read that straight line is more foracceleration or something
is the curved one the same angle as stock, or is it different too
that would be nice because then you have 2 options with that, and the stock as another one

do a high speed run see if you loose much top speed

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2010 Zuma 155cc
BWS X Digital Gauges<>Clear Smoke BWS 125 Turn Signal Covers<>Billet Bar Ends<>Front Brake Rotor 260mm<>Razor Cam Covers<>NCY Breather Assembly<>Polini EVO Clutch Bell<>Anodized Orange Dipstick<>RRGS Front and Rear Shocks<>Dual 5000K HID's 35w High/Low Beam<>Black Adjustable Brake levers<>Halo Led's<>TST 2 Stage Variator 9gL 10gS <>NCY Oil Cooler<>Yamaha Skid Plate<>NCY Contra Spring Bearing<>1000 Rpm RRGS Contra Spring<>Yoshimura Exhaust<>NCY Direct Ignition Coil<>Lightweight Cooling Fan<>Koso Cable Clamps<>High Lift Cam+Lightened Cam Sprocket<>Underseat Storage Bag<>Stage 6 (Koso) Clutch<>Accel Handlebars<>Koso Brake Light<>Lightweight Swingarm<>RRGS 4 Pot Caliper (PH80)<>Stainless Braided Brake Line<>Lightened F|ywheel<>OEM Headlight Screens<>Zubiku Wing<>Air Horn<>9 inch stretch<>Koso High Flow Filter/Cover<>RPM 10 Spoke Wheels<>Digital Camo Vinyl Wrap<>SEP Cvt Covers





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Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:36 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
Yeah, the "boomerang" curve looked a little more aggressive than stock...

My top end seemed very strong this morning. I didn't max it out, but I was able to hold 65 easily.

I was afraid of losing top speed now i don't have the longer Daytona belt or lower rear pulley, but all seems good.


Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:39 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
Sorry about your TD failure... I had very similar symptoms when mine went bad on me. The grease/oil was blackish brown on mine, but it did not leak on the CVT case like yours did. My Secondary Fixed Sheave (not the TD itself) was the part that failed. My secondary fixed sheave was the OEM part that was used with an MRP torque driver. It failed at the welds in just the same way as yours did. I replaced my entire rear pulley with a Prodigy TD (complete assembly) and I used the more aggressive strait bearing notches vs the curved stock angled notches. I'm very happy with the way it handles compared to before. I know that mine most likely failed due to a lack of fresh grease on the inside surfaces (near the bearings) of the Secondary Fixed Sheave. A lack of lubrication caused the secondary fixed sheave to heat up and weaken the welds. I thoroughly cleaned the drive shaft and the CVT case, variator, clutch, and clutch bell of any grease that may have been slung around. In my situation it was very little, but mostly metal shavings and metal dust.

I would suggest always buying a complete rear pulley assembly vs. a TD mated to an OEM secondary fixed sheave. The parts should be made to work together and balanced from the factory. Even the FSM says the rear pulley should always be replaced as a complete assembly. With the higher stresses of your BBK and high torque & high speed riding conditions, it probably wore out the assembly lube quicker than a stock motor would. I suggest cleaning out the old assembly lube and replacing it with fresh assembly lube every 6000 miles on any 125-164cc motor and every 3000 miles on any motor larger than 164cc. It's cheap insurance to prevent the situation from reoccurring in the future.

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Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:51 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
Thanks for your input Johnny. I made sure to remove all oil and grease from the case and other drive components.
Next time, I have the CVT apart, I think I'll take your advice and do a grease changeout on the rear pulley.

JohnnyFYX wrote:
I would suggest always buying a complete rear pulley assembly vs. a TD mated to an OEM secondary fixed sheave..


That would make sense, but the part that just failed WAS a complete pulley assembly :wth:


Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:12 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
True, but in your specific case I believe the rear pulley failed from extreme performance conditions that the OEM CVT wasn't designed for. The more performance you put through various parts the more maintenance becomes necessary to keep it running without failures. I'm not sure how much assembly lube was applied to your FRC rear pulley assembly from the factory, but when I installed my Prodigy rear pulley assembly it had some lube and for added insurance I applied even more assembly lube. It's been great ever since, I'm planning on inspecting, cleaning it out, and replacing the assembly lube on my next oil change. While servicing the rear pulley I'll be looking for hair line cracks in the welds and irregular polishing of the drive faces.

If you didn't have harmonic vibrations or any other weird vibrations from your CVT, then I doubt your FRC TD assembly was out of spec or defective in any way. It most likely was just extreme riding conditions that burnt away the assembly lube. It's like running a motor without oil... eventually the lack of lubrication creates excessive heat and destroys itself.

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Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:23 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
JohnnyFYX wrote:
True, but in your specific case I believe the rear pulley failed from extreme performance conditions that the OEM CVT wasn't designed for.


That's why I use performance CVT parts!

Quote:
I'm not sure how much assembly lube was applied to your FRC rear pulley assembly from the factory


It's not an FRC rear pulley - I did get it from Chris, but it was before he started selling the FRC. I checked the grease and added some assembly lube about 400 miles ago. But it has been bugging me that I did that. Assembly lube is too thin for that application I think. I think a thicker, stickier grease would be more appropriate in hindsight. The grease in the OEM pulley is some ear-wax lookin' sticky dookie.


Quote:
If you didn't have harmonic vibrations or any other weird vibrations from your CVT, then I doubt your FRC TD assembly was out of spec or defective in any way.


No, just the common vibrations between 30-40mph that we commonly blame on the contra spring. But, I have been noticing a slight performance degradation lately and a couple of stalling when coming to a stop.


Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:41 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
I use the Bell Ray Assembly Lube (white tub with a blue lid) as per the FSM. It's very sticky and thick. It's a bluish green color. I noticed that the OEM lube was more tan or brownish in color. I've yet to find a lube that is an exact match. I've just used the Bell Ray and it's held up fine so far. Also make sure the slide bearings inside the notches of the TD have decent amount of lube as well. I used the same Bell Ray Assembly lube for this application as well.

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Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:59 am
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Post Re: Torque Driver Failure
damn sorry to see that :(

this one is before i found FRC. there is a price difference between the two.

yes don't use assembly lube. get some high temp lithium grease. one i strongly suggest is the amsoil racing grease or something of that caliber. it won't fling off and it's been tested in the TD for 10 years by my friends shop, im the one that gave him a tube to try. he still breaks TD but he did say the amsoil racing grease did help. in the end when it's time (milage or age) got to change the TD. as the torque from the 4 stroke kills the TD, also weight plays a role since 4 stroke scooters are heavier. heavier riders breaks TD faster that's how we found out weight was a issue. also stiffer torque springs like 2k can kill it.

FRC costs a lot more but build quality is much better. my friend probably hasn't tested one as it's too high of a price for the locals (street use). it was designed for racers since they break TD often.

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Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:03 am
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