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 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow! 
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scooters and mods: 08 zuma dual headlight tmod rally kit cutom red paint koso mirros red anodized trans bolts
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
That's no restriction that's de tuning to meet smog
There isn't a vehicle that meets smog that can't be tuned for better performance

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2008 zuma dual headlight mod koso mirrors liquid cooled polini corsa kit leo vince zx stage 6 variator rally kit custom red paintFUEL INJECTEDsoon to be 100cc
2008 stella olive custom ported 177 cc kit dechromed ford tear drop tail light alive and breathing and awaiting cosmtic surgery thanks to an trump cager
1985 elite 150 how long can i leave it stock


Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:44 am
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Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
6.8 : 1 That is an insult to piston rings the world over. Might as well use rubber bands. Hopefully just a Head Change.

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MHR Hyper Race, 70cc #318440 / Yasuni C-16 pipe, Stage 6 HPC 12mm Crank, Polini C-3 Race Brg. MVT premium, IGGY, TNT- Adj- Inj Pump / Y-Plate, Motul 710, Malossi Over-Range Var-6.0 rollers,Torque Boost Rear Pulley & Stage 6 k-belt, Orange, Contra / 1 spacer, DR HIT Clutch,red malossi race / no pillows+ STG 6 433 Bell, 15-50 Up Gear, Moto Tassinari VF3 Reed's & 4mm spacer, Clone-Blk 21mm, MJ #-94,PJ#42, W-7 2nd , 45*Slide, OEM Airbox , Snorkle out, 5 vents, Side Stand, Daytona Style Alloy Wheels,WD Torsion Arm, Stage 6 R/T Multimeter, Strt-8-HD Fan Trimmed + Air Scoop 50cc Fan Housing, Frt - Pirelli - SL 26 - 120/90/10, Rear- Shinko - 160/70/12, Frando Racing / 5DV-001 Ceramic Rear Shoes - Sigma BC-8 Speedometer-


Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:00 am
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:15 am
Posts: 44
Location: Indianapolis Indiana
scooters and mods: 08 Zuma 50 two stroke. ZX pipe, weights, springs, egr delete, and many more to come in the future.
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
I agree with that jmkjr. Basically everything is de-tuned so to speak to pass emissions. I was only going off of things I've read about the 110 being corked up a bit more then the 50 bikes because it needed more restriction to pass emissions. I don't know if it's true or not. But either way I'm happy to have a 110cc scoot with larger diameter variator and clutch to start the process with. I love the Zuma and always will. But I'm very happy with the Rattler so far. I've found malossi trans parts and malossi bbk for it so far. Supposedly there are flange adaptors so I can use the different zuma carbs on it, and I'm seeing people that use BWS100 expantion chambers with the flanges cut off and re welded to fit the rattler jug. So I'm glad to see that there is hope in getting some aftermarket for it. I'll eventually be able to test these theories and parts out. But that costs money and I just bought two scooters in 3 days so that'll have to wait a few weeks.

Anyway, ya I read the stats and was surprised by the low compression as well. Also they list the carb as a 19mm but that's a bunch of crap. It's a 19 at the mouth but then gets smaller and oval shaped as it gets closer to the slide. The carb in reality can't move near as much air as a real 19mm would and I see very little difference in the air box from the 50 roughhouse to the 110 rattler. I'll tinker with it when the money comes and we shall see what it does. Also, the Zuma is coming together fairly smoothly. The 70 kit is installed and the multivar and delta clutch are installed. If I have time tomorrow I'll mess with jetting the carb and tuning the trans. I think I'm having more fun messing with these scooters then I do messing with motorcycles.

_________________
2008 Zuma, black
Leo Vince ZX expansion chamber and can
Not sure of the weight of the weights in the clutch but I assume it's the ones that came with the pipe
As far as I know this is all that is done so far.
Pulls hard up to 35 and will make it to about 43 mph on the flats
Dual headlight mod
2014 Genuine Roughhouse, matte army green
Malossi 70cc sport bbk
85 main jet
NCY super transmission kit
Rattler handlebar and gauge conversion
2008 Genuine Rattler, silver & black
Bone stock so far


Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:34 pm
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Posts: 1060
Location: Lansing, MI
scooters and mods: '08 Zuma, "The Fly," '96 Jog "In progress."
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
It's a sickness. The most fun sickness ever. I just spent another grand on parts, and I'm still shopping for the winter projects.

It went from, "I want a scooter" all the way to, "I'm a total scooter addict" in very short order.

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08 Zuma "The Fly" 50: Stage6 Racing Mk.1 (0.7 squish), Athena Race exhaust (S6 Pro), Malossi RHQ crank, Doppler 15/50s, Dellorto 21mm PHBG DS (60/42/90), Top Perf. Vforce3 reed valve, Malossi Multivar w/drive face, Malossi Delta Clutch & Wing bell (Yellow contra, yellow clutch springs on stiffest), Stage 6 R/T forks, Stage6 R/T 4 pot brake, S6 280mm big brake, Aerox 100 rims, S6 CNC'd controls, Brembo master cylinder, Hoca/Bando ignition, naked bars, manual petcock, Pirelli SL26s, dual light mod, re-profiled seat, LED signals, doodads and gizmos (TT Vapor, Harris Project R1 grips, silly stuff) and always running Amsoil Dominator.


Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:01 am
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:15 am
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Location: Indianapolis Indiana
scooters and mods: 08 Zuma 50 two stroke. ZX pipe, weights, springs, egr delete, and many more to come in the future.
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
An awesome sickness at that! Time to eat breakfast and get to tinkering with the scoots again.

_________________
2008 Zuma, black
Leo Vince ZX expansion chamber and can
Not sure of the weight of the weights in the clutch but I assume it's the ones that came with the pipe
As far as I know this is all that is done so far.
Pulls hard up to 35 and will make it to about 43 mph on the flats
Dual headlight mod
2014 Genuine Roughhouse, matte army green
Malossi 70cc sport bbk
85 main jet
NCY super transmission kit
Rattler handlebar and gauge conversion
2008 Genuine Rattler, silver & black
Bone stock so far


Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:20 am
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Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
I would work on that compression Ratio. I did some checking and if I,m correct a 90cc polaris type squish type head would breathe some fire into your Rattler. You would need to pull your head and do some checks, but If its a minarelli type 90cc base motor. This is where I would start. I have one of these heads for a 90cc project I,m thinking about for the winter, so if you need any measurements give a HOLLA.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/BILLET-HEAD-PRE ... 0744687313


Attachments:
Photo129.jpg
Photo129.jpg [ 246.52 KiB | Viewed 2458 times ]
Photo131.jpg
Photo131.jpg [ 263.99 KiB | Viewed 2458 times ]

_________________
MHR Hyper Race, 70cc #318440 / Yasuni C-16 pipe, Stage 6 HPC 12mm Crank, Polini C-3 Race Brg. MVT premium, IGGY, TNT- Adj- Inj Pump / Y-Plate, Motul 710, Malossi Over-Range Var-6.0 rollers,Torque Boost Rear Pulley & Stage 6 k-belt, Orange, Contra / 1 spacer, DR HIT Clutch,red malossi race / no pillows+ STG 6 433 Bell, 15-50 Up Gear, Moto Tassinari VF3 Reed's & 4mm spacer, Clone-Blk 21mm, MJ #-94,PJ#42, W-7 2nd , 45*Slide, OEM Airbox , Snorkle out, 5 vents, Side Stand, Daytona Style Alloy Wheels,WD Torsion Arm, Stage 6 R/T Multimeter, Strt-8-HD Fan Trimmed + Air Scoop 50cc Fan Housing, Frt - Pirelli - SL 26 - 120/90/10, Rear- Shinko - 160/70/12, Frando Racing / 5DV-001 Ceramic Rear Shoes - Sigma BC-8 Speedometer-
Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:59 am
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:15 am
Posts: 44
Location: Indianapolis Indiana
scooters and mods: 08 Zuma 50 two stroke. ZX pipe, weights, springs, egr delete, and many more to come in the future.
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
corrosion wrote:
I would work on that compression Ratio. I did some checking and if I,m correct a 90cc polaris type squish type head would breathe some fire into your Rattler. You would need to pull your head and do some checks, but If its a minarelli type 90cc base motor. This is where I would start. I have one of these heads for a 90cc project I,m thinking about for the winter, so if you need any measurements give a HOLLA.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/BILLET-HEAD-PRE ... 0744687313


Excellent, thank you. Yes it is a minarelli based engine but I can't tell you if it is a variance of the 90. Sounds like a good guess though. Yes if you can I'd like to know the measurements. If this will fit then I'll order a head. I've got a few aluminum 70 bbk heads floating around but I'm not sure if they would work without any machining.

_________________
2008 Zuma, black
Leo Vince ZX expansion chamber and can
Not sure of the weight of the weights in the clutch but I assume it's the ones that came with the pipe
As far as I know this is all that is done so far.
Pulls hard up to 35 and will make it to about 43 mph on the flats
Dual headlight mod
2014 Genuine Roughhouse, matte army green
Malossi 70cc sport bbk
85 main jet
NCY super transmission kit
Rattler handlebar and gauge conversion
2008 Genuine Rattler, silver & black
Bone stock so far


Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:16 am
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Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
90cc won't work, the piston will hit the head on a 70cc head. Need a larger design, for the 90cc+ head. Prefferably a squish design.
The 90cc's larger piston diameter, will hit the smaller squish design of a 70cc head.
You can deck a 90 to fit a 70cc. But you need to recut a 70cc to fit a 90, lots more machining involved.


Attachments:
File comment: differences in head chambers & bands.
IMG_3166.JPG
IMG_3166.JPG [ 149.35 KiB | Viewed 2450 times ]
File comment: 90cc head with 70cc piston, piston is sitting on squish band
IMG_3163.JPG
IMG_3163.JPG [ 145.61 KiB | Viewed 2450 times ]
File comment: 70cc piston on 90cc head, decked down to fit.
IMG_3162.JPG
IMG_3162.JPG [ 145.22 KiB | Viewed 2450 times ]
File comment: 70cc piston on 70cc
IMG_3161.JPG
IMG_3161.JPG [ 141.92 KiB | Viewed 2450 times ]

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MHR Hyper Race, 70cc #318440 / Yasuni C-16 pipe, Stage 6 HPC 12mm Crank, Polini C-3 Race Brg. MVT premium, IGGY, TNT- Adj- Inj Pump / Y-Plate, Motul 710, Malossi Over-Range Var-6.0 rollers,Torque Boost Rear Pulley & Stage 6 k-belt, Orange, Contra / 1 spacer, DR HIT Clutch,red malossi race / no pillows+ STG 6 433 Bell, 15-50 Up Gear, Moto Tassinari VF3 Reed's & 4mm spacer, Clone-Blk 21mm, MJ #-94,PJ#42, W-7 2nd , 45*Slide, OEM Airbox , Snorkle out, 5 vents, Side Stand, Daytona Style Alloy Wheels,WD Torsion Arm, Stage 6 R/T Multimeter, Strt-8-HD Fan Trimmed + Air Scoop 50cc Fan Housing, Frt - Pirelli - SL 26 - 120/90/10, Rear- Shinko - 160/70/12, Frando Racing / 5DV-001 Ceramic Rear Shoes - Sigma BC-8 Speedometer-
Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:24 am
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Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:27 pm
Posts: 14870
Location: portage wi
scooters and mods: 08 zuma dual headlight tmod rally kit cutom red paint koso mirros red anodized trans bolts
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
You could use the 70 cc head or 50cc head to check I f it would fit but I belive it uses the 100 cc block and head n ot the 90cc

_________________
2008 zuma dual headlight mod koso mirrors liquid cooled polini corsa kit leo vince zx stage 6 variator rally kit custom red paintFUEL INJECTEDsoon to be 100cc
2008 stella olive custom ported 177 cc kit dechromed ford tear drop tail light alive and breathing and awaiting cosmtic surgery thanks to an trump cager
1985 elite 150 how long can i leave it stock


Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:28 pm
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Scooterologist

Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:15 am
Posts: 44
Location: Indianapolis Indiana
scooters and mods: 08 Zuma 50 two stroke. ZX pipe, weights, springs, egr delete, and many more to come in the future.
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
Thanks for the info man. I've done mechanic work most of my adult life, but I'm far from an expert on what could possibly work with what on these scooter engines. Sometimes I've been surprised at some of the off combos that work together. I spoke with a friend of a friend that is a mechanic at a local Kymco/Genuine dealer for a while on the phone today. He agreed that it was absurd how low the compression ratio is on the rattler 110. He told me to remove the head, don't use the gasket, clean the gasket sealing surfaces very well and use an aresol spray can of gasket maker (I can't remember the brand) and to use three thin coats on the taped off head and that should get me close to the correct squish for a 100cc 2 stroke. He claims he's built quite a few motors with high compression ratios and have never had one fail due to the gasket method he has used in custom applications (if I use the exact product he spoke of and do it correctly). I'll talk to him tomorrow and get the name of the product he was talking about.

_________________
2008 Zuma, black
Leo Vince ZX expansion chamber and can
Not sure of the weight of the weights in the clutch but I assume it's the ones that came with the pipe
As far as I know this is all that is done so far.
Pulls hard up to 35 and will make it to about 43 mph on the flats
Dual headlight mod
2014 Genuine Roughhouse, matte army green
Malossi 70cc sport bbk
85 main jet
NCY super transmission kit
Rattler handlebar and gauge conversion
2008 Genuine Rattler, silver & black
Bone stock so far


Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:32 pm
Profile YIM
Scooterologist

Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:15 am
Posts: 44
Location: Indianapolis Indiana
scooters and mods: 08 Zuma 50 two stroke. ZX pipe, weights, springs, egr delete, and many more to come in the future.
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
If I go this route then I'll do a squish test with no gasket and see where I'm at and go from there. But I need to look in to this product more before I jump on it.

_________________
2008 Zuma, black
Leo Vince ZX expansion chamber and can
Not sure of the weight of the weights in the clutch but I assume it's the ones that came with the pipe
As far as I know this is all that is done so far.
Pulls hard up to 35 and will make it to about 43 mph on the flats
Dual headlight mod
2014 Genuine Roughhouse, matte army green
Malossi 70cc sport bbk
85 main jet
NCY super transmission kit
Rattler handlebar and gauge conversion
2008 Genuine Rattler, silver & black
Bone stock so far


Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:35 pm
Profile YIM
Scooterologist

Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:15 am
Posts: 44
Location: Indianapolis Indiana
scooters and mods: 08 Zuma 50 two stroke. ZX pipe, weights, springs, egr delete, and many more to come in the future.
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
But again, thanks guys for looking out for a fellow rider and offering sound advice. I'm glad to be a part of this site. Just wish some or you fornicates were in my area so I had some people to ride with. My motorcycle riding buddies think I'm off my rocker messing with these scooters. I think they're lame because they don't enjoy all types of two wheel riding.

_________________
2008 Zuma, black
Leo Vince ZX expansion chamber and can
Not sure of the weight of the weights in the clutch but I assume it's the ones that came with the pipe
As far as I know this is all that is done so far.
Pulls hard up to 35 and will make it to about 43 mph on the flats
Dual headlight mod
2014 Genuine Roughhouse, matte army green
Malossi 70cc sport bbk
85 main jet
NCY super transmission kit
Rattler handlebar and gauge conversion
2008 Genuine Rattler, silver & black
Bone stock so far


Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:40 pm
Profile YIM
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Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:27 pm
Posts: 14870
Location: portage wi
scooters and mods: 08 zuma dual headlight tmod rally kit cutom red paint koso mirros red anodized trans bolts
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
If you hAve a smog style head checking squish is worthless
When you have the head off if it has a hump like the oem zuma head there is no way to check the squish

In the Stella and Vespa world of no head gasket engines we use perma text ultra gold for an extra measure of head sealing

_________________
2008 zuma dual headlight mod koso mirrors liquid cooled polini corsa kit leo vince zx stage 6 variator rally kit custom red paintFUEL INJECTEDsoon to be 100cc
2008 stella olive custom ported 177 cc kit dechromed ford tear drop tail light alive and breathing and awaiting cosmtic surgery thanks to an trump cager
1985 elite 150 how long can i leave it stock


Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:06 pm
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Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:29 pm
Posts: 1060
Location: Lansing, MI
scooters and mods: '08 Zuma, "The Fly," '96 Jog "In progress."
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
Yeah, I used Permatex Ultra Copper (I think this is what jmk is referring to) to run my TP Trophy without a head gasket and it worked a treat.

_________________
08 Zuma "The Fly" 50: Stage6 Racing Mk.1 (0.7 squish), Athena Race exhaust (S6 Pro), Malossi RHQ crank, Doppler 15/50s, Dellorto 21mm PHBG DS (60/42/90), Top Perf. Vforce3 reed valve, Malossi Multivar w/drive face, Malossi Delta Clutch & Wing bell (Yellow contra, yellow clutch springs on stiffest), Stage 6 R/T forks, Stage6 R/T 4 pot brake, S6 280mm big brake, Aerox 100 rims, S6 CNC'd controls, Brembo master cylinder, Hoca/Bando ignition, naked bars, manual petcock, Pirelli SL26s, dual light mod, re-profiled seat, LED signals, doodads and gizmos (TT Vapor, Harris Project R1 grips, silly stuff) and always running Amsoil Dominator.


Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:31 am
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Scooterologist

Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:15 am
Posts: 44
Location: Indianapolis Indiana
scooters and mods: 08 Zuma 50 two stroke. ZX pipe, weights, springs, egr delete, and many more to come in the future.
Post Re: 2014 Genuine Roughhouse coming my way tomorrow!
Excellent! Thank you both very much. I guess it appears that this method is safe enough to execute. Although I'll have other issues to attend to because the clutch started slipping pretty bad out of nowhere yesterday and then vibrated like hell (while slipping) on take off from a dead stop or very light throttle. If I goosed it it would finally grab and then take off smooth. Took it apart today and the belt looks good, clutch is completely worn, bell is grooved and gaulded, and rollers have flat spots. So I'm ordering a Dr. pulley HiT clutch and bell, Dr. P sliders, and a belt for good measure. The variator seemed to be in good shape so I'll let that go for a while until the urge gets too much. Also the gearing is nice and solid in the bearings with no play and is quiet. If I have time tomorrow I'll try the head gasket less job. But with work and a class tomorrow night I may not be able to. Was this gasket sealer you guys are talking about happen to be in an aresol can?

_________________
2008 Zuma, black
Leo Vince ZX expansion chamber and can
Not sure of the weight of the weights in the clutch but I assume it's the ones that came with the pipe
As far as I know this is all that is done so far.
Pulls hard up to 35 and will make it to about 43 mph on the flats
Dual headlight mod
2014 Genuine Roughhouse, matte army green
Malossi 70cc sport bbk
85 main jet
NCY super transmission kit
Rattler handlebar and gauge conversion
2008 Genuine Rattler, silver & black
Bone stock so far


Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:00 pm
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