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 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated) 
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
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scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
Ok I have ordered the parts in

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:09 pm
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
OEM belt ordered. Currently going to be cleaning the old gasket off as i got some new ultra copper rtv.

Does anyone know how many restrictors are in the LV TT pipe? I know one is near the exhaust flange but Idk if there is any in the silencer area.

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:07 am
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
Your parts list looks great .
The lo vince restriction i just in the exhaust falnge right near the end where it connect to cyinder.
Use a dremel or dill to knock off the weld .

The Leo I have actaully run with the a athena bbk.
You will be safe below 10 k and it is a noticeable upgrade over stock.
They are hard to get ahold of new over here without importanting from europe

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:54 pm
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
Ok just opened up the clutch and the cluitch springs and contra look to be aftermarket. The clutch springs weren't even installed the correct way ( you know how one hook is slightly elongated compared to the other). I am thinking this aftermarket contra as well as the springs could have been affecting my take off as well as shifting to high gears. Well I'll see how much of a difference it makes when I install the new springs.

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:54 am
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
Looks like you keep finding things to fix .
The leo comes with clutch springs to get you closer to the power band .

Just settled on the contra spring the white is ok but the yellow is so much better it down shifts and makes coming out of corners and up hill snappier it does make your weights act about 1/2 gram lighter .so if you were happy with 5 grams you will probably find 5.5 act the same Since the yellow spring tension needs heavier weights upfront.

The delta clutch has a ton of areas to dial in and tweek the stock clutch was easier just swap springs and contra so it took me longer to get to where i want to be with contra clutch springs and weights .

One other thing since you changed gears i just went over 800 miles since my gear change and changed the gear oil it was pretty dark from the gears wearing in so you might want to change that out before you turn 1000 miles .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:41 pm
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
zino18 wrote:
Looks like you keep finding things to fix .
The leo comes with clutch springs to get you closer to the power band .

Just settled on the contra spring the white is ok but the yellow is so much better it down shifts and makes coming out of corners and up hill snappier it does make your weights act about 1/2 gram lighter .so if you were happy with 5 grams you will probably find 5.5 act the same Since the yellow spring tension needs heavier weights upfront.

The delta clutch has a ton of areas to dial in and tweek the stock clutch was easier just swap springs and contra so it took me longer to get to where i want to be with contra clutch springs and weights .

One other thing since you changed gears i just went over 800 miles since my gear change and changed the gear oil it was pretty dark from the gears wearing in so you might want to change that out before you turn 1000 miles .



Yeah I think I am going to still stick with the white contra as the difference apparently from scooter-attack is +30 (white) and +35% (yellow) from stock. I think with the malossi torque controller I should be able to get that extra bit of compression from the white to make it act like a yellow.

Yeah hopefully these LV springs are plug and play and i dont have to touch the clutch area anymore. I just bought a 39m socket as I didnt like going to a mechanic far away from me just to use their socket.

Yes I remember I made note when I first got the gears to change the oil after 500kms.


Update:
Reason for parts delay is because the white spring and the clutch bell is on back order. Waiting for malossi to pull through and quickly send the items out to scooter-attack so I can get them.

I have also installed the tachmeter but will test it later as I do not think it is a good idea to start the engine with no exhaust attached.

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:20 pm
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
Got the parts today and installed everything. ultra copper in the pipe is being set to dry so can't start it yet. I also couldnt use the torsion controller as it for some reason didnt allow the torque pulley to open up fully. Also the previous owner has messed up the crankcase threads and so the nut on the variator isn't being threaded as tightly as it should be. I may have to thread down or use some blue loctite.

Will update once I get it all running tommorow sometime.

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:50 pm
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
Nevermind, I have decided to take it for a quick spin and it was running very very smooth. Idle to moving is very smooth (unlike the previous one which had stock pipe and blue clutch springs). I have looked at my rpm and found that I am maxing around 6700 with these 5.8gram rollers. Since my final drive is 9.9. I may have to go down to like a 5-5.3 range maybe but I will test that as well as do some plug chops soon. Haven't changed any carb settings (aside from setting air screw 1.5 turns out).

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:35 pm
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
Just rode a few more times and found out it maxes around 6700rpms but then once it reaches high speeds i.e. 40mph then it decides to drop to 3000-4000rpms whereas it should be into overrev now. Any ideas as to what's happening?

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:49 pm
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
Drop the weights real low .
Your gears probably need to have you below 5 grams
The Leo used to come with weights in the 4 range if it still does put those in .
Then put half of those and half of 5.8 gram .

What you are looking for is for you variator to spin above 7 k to be in the power band of that pipe and hold and gradually rise into overrev .
As far as torsion controller on my set up the malossi piece goes right on the spring under the clutch.
So from inside to out it is torque driver /contra spring/torsion controller /clutch
On other scoots it sits on the torque driver.
torque driver/torsion controller/spring/clutch
Did you take the restrictor out of the pipe it is welded right inside the header?

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:14 am
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
I helped build a 2008-2009 zuma with a leo vince zx and athena bbk and that thing was pushing mid to high 9s
We never put gears in it , Broke 50 easily .
They have same stock gears as your prebug did at 13.3 just 30 lbs heavier.

Looking at my notes for my current build my peak rpm is down a couple hundred rpms pushing a 25 % higher gear ratio.

On the stand are you pushing higher than 7 rpms and is the torque driver opening & letting the variator shift.

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:32 pm
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
I tried using 5.15 grams but even then the max rpm I was able to get was 7.1k. The rpms go in a wierd pattern similar to below.

Idling 1.5k rpms -> 4k clutch engages > 6.4k rpms > sometimes hits 7.1k > as soon as it hits that it drops down to 3-4k (going like 40mph) -> slowly increases to about 6k rpms and then drops again.

I have put in 4.4gram rollers and I will test them later. I am stumped.

Btw yes I have removed the restrictor and even max revving on the stand (with 5.15grams) gave me a max of around 6k. I think the crank could be damaged from all the seizing on the old piston?

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:53 pm
Profile
Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
Just to rule out carb settings and you didnt say you upjetted yet

Since you have a manual choke you can use it to diagnose if this is carb related.
warm it up and run it wide open throttle open choke up all the way
if it runs better you are lean at the top go up one jet
if it runs worse you are rich go down a jet

The other way to check it is to roll the throttle open from 1/2 throttle till rpms peak then open it 3/4 rpms should go up another notch and then run it wide open if 3/4 throttle peaks higher than wide open your main jet is off

2nd area to dial in on
Your idle and clutch engagement points sound right the full throttle from 7ish rpms back to 3 or 4 would start to disengage your clutch .
lighter weights can overcome some of the weird shift of a stock torque driver it seems to change gears at about 10-15 mph is what it feels like ,if it has worn in the grooves this may cause some down shifting but 7 grand rpms should easily be above the shift point by a grand or so I never paid attention to rpms for the shift just the speed .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:20 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
zino18 wrote:
Just to rule out carb settings and you didnt say you upjetted yet

Since you have a manual choke you can use it to diagnose if this is carb related.
warm it up and run it wide open throttle open choke up all the way
if it runs better you are lean at the top go up one jet
if it runs worse you are rich go down a jet

The other way to check it is to roll the throttle open from 1/2 throttle till rpms peak then open it 3/4 rpms should go up another notch and then run it wide open if 3/4 throttle peaks higher than wide open your main jet is off

2nd area to dial in on
Your idle and clutch engagement points sound right the full throttle from 7ish rpms back to 3 or 4 would start to disengage your clutch .
lighter weights can overcome some of the weird shift of a stock torque driver it seems to change gears at about 10-15 mph is what it feels like ,if it has worn in the grooves this may cause some down shifting but 7 grand rpms should easily be above the shift point by a grand or so I never paid attention to rpms for the shift just the speed .


I actually down jetted to an 82 from an 84. I am a bit confused on how to tell if you have reached the right MJ by the choke? If I am jetted right and I open up the choke fully wont it just make it run worse since there is a ton more of fuel coming in? I get how this can be used to check if you are lean but not if you are rich/jetted right.

I did try that method where I was half-3/4 throttle then I went full throttle and the exhaust always made a pinging sound when I was WOT so I always had to roll back to 3/4 throttle. As soon as the pinging sound started the rpms dropped heaps so I am still thinking these chinese jets I got are wayy too large and is drowing the engine at WOT causing the fuel to not ignite efficiently and essentially bogging down the scooter. Anyways I will try the 3/4-WOT-3/4 test to see if my rpms actually do rise with these 4.4g rollers.

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:10 pm
Profile
Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: 1998 Zuma Prebug Project (All help appreciated)
the choke will in effect make it a tad richer
so if you are a little rich it may not change performance
It is most dramatic when you are lean .
does pinging mean higher pitch i use the tem zingy because thats what it sounds like if it does you are lean up top
if it sounds deeper like bawwww you are rich .
Did rpms stay steady at 1/2 throttle and 3/4 throttle or did they bottom out also back to 4000 rpms ?

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:15 pm
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