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 Little help with my shopping cart. 
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Scooterologist

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm
Posts: 85
scooters and mods: Black 09 BWS
Post Little help with my shopping cart.
So little intro here,

The Scoot, a black 2009 BWS 50(49cc) with a few beauty marks from being laid down...

live in suburban/rural western Canada (no air care) at a lovely 385m, i currently ride my Scoot as daily as i can from April - Oct weather is generally mild but we can get some wicked heat 30c+ in the summer. (i have a pair of pickups i share with the wife so scoot is not my only method of transportation). The scoot started off as my little brothers from new but due to a bad scare i bought it off him as a toy, its sat most of its life and currently only has 2600 kms on it. we where both big boys 250lbs so the dealer throttle modded it for us before we took it home.

I have gps'd my 20min WOT ride to work (little to no stops) i can verify that my spedo is mostly accurate i average 55-60kmhr, top out at 72kmhr down hills, up hill no faster than 40kmhr.

My wife got stuck behind me on the way home not long ago and asked if there was anything i could do to make "that thing" go faster especially up hills. (insert evil grin)

Which brings me to today, I have been binge lurking the forums as i plot my build, been in contact with scootertuning .ca and have what i think to be a fairly decent list so far.

70cc BBK - Athena Sport Aluminum or Malosi cast. (malosi is what they initially recommended)
Yasuni R exhaust
107mm polini for race clutch
malosi multivar
yellow clutch springs
yellow tourg springs
16x13 5.1g roller weights
small end bearing 10mm (MHR team)
set of carbon reeds
set of 6mm main jets 80-102 (poloni or stage 6)
br9hs spark plug

Now what i am not sure about is the BBK i want the power of the Athena but i am worried about killing it with my amateur tuning skillz, dealer says the athena will be around 9-10hp and the malosi would be 7-8hp considering the rest of the build.

Worth noting once i get a little more comfortable with my tuning skillz i will be doing a carb and then probably upgears and a crank.

I am not to concerned about top speed 75kmhr is plenty seeing as the ride to work is a 60-70kmhr zone... i really just want more power on hills and acceleration.

_________________
2009 Yamaha BWS 50, Throttle Mod, Dual LED Headlight Mod, Malosi Sport BBK, Yasuni R Exhaust, Malosi Multivar, Polini for race 3 clutch, Mellow yellow springs all arround .


Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:49 pm
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
For your 2009
You could break 80kms easy with just the Malossi with the stock gears on the 2008
I hit 45 with a 2005 with stock pipe malossi 70 cc

With stock carb with these jets from your yamaha dealer
84 main part #14T-14343-42-00 82 main part #14T-14343-41-00 vino pilot 5BM-14353-23-00 - 46

plenty of power top to bottom

next step
adding a pipe like the yasuni r would put you over 50
you would need rollers and springs to dial that in
reeds come with both the athena kit and malossi kit i have both

The 2009 clutch is good enough for the Athena or Malossi
The variator adds a little bit to top end and shifts better.


here is my malossi build thread
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28541

The athena is a good kit also , conventional wisdom if you are going to run it hard you need a upgraded carb .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:30 pm
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
A good overall reference for upgrading by author Nifty50
Scootertuning is a great vendor to work with
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11750

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:39 pm
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Scooterologist

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm
Posts: 85
scooters and mods: Black 09 BWS
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
zino18 wrote:
For your 2009
You could break 80kms easy with just the Malossi with the stock gears on the 2008
I hit 45 with a 2005 with stock pipe malossi 70 cc

With stock carb with these jets from your yamaha dealer
84 main part #14T-14343-42-00 82 main part #14T-14343-41-00 vino pilot 5BM-14353-23-00 - 46

plenty of power top to bottom

next step
adding a pipe like the yasuni r would put you over 50
you would need rollers and springs to dial that in
reeds come with both the athena kit and malossi kit i have both

The 2009 clutch is good enough for the Athena or Malossi
The variator adds a little bit to top end and shifts better.


here is my malossi build thread
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28541

The athena is a good kit also , conventional wisdom if you are going to run it hard you need a upgraded carb .


Thanks
I was planning on biting off on the whole list as soon as I can make a decision on BBK.
I definitely want to tackle the carb but that's a stage 2 goal just between switching to a manual choke and swapping out the throttle cable puts it a little over the top for the first go.

I literally have a solid 15 min drive WOT before I need to stop or even slow down considering this and my carb plans I am wondering if i would I kill the Athena before I get to the carb?? Probably next season.

_________________
2009 Yamaha BWS 50, Throttle Mod, Dual LED Headlight Mod, Malosi Sport BBK, Yasuni R Exhaust, Malosi Multivar, Polini for race 3 clutch, Mellow yellow springs all arround .


Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:11 pm
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
15 minutes wide open is not running it that hard if it is jetted right with no air leaks .

Jet it right run it with a temp gauge is good advice for both kits .
Carb upgrade for the Athena becomes more critical with the pipe because your going to run higher rpms .

Are you good at dialing in a carb?
If not then get the malossi it is more forgiving to a slight carb tuning error .
Both stock carb and new carb need tweeking.



When you build these things you should do the in stages so you can learn what your mods do .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:11 pm
Profile
Scooterologist

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm
Posts: 85
scooters and mods: Black 09 BWS
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
zino18 wrote:
Are you good at dialing in a carb?
If not then get the malossi it is more forgiving to a slight carb tuning error .
Both stock carb and new carb need tweeking.



When you build these things you should do the in stages so you can learn what your mods do .


This would be my first time tuning a carb, I was going to do the BBK & exhaust get it all back together and running then do the clutch and multivar.

From my reading I think both kits will pull way better than stock I guess I am just greedy I am of the opinion that that the Athena will have more acceleration at higher speeds, the road I ride Is a fairly curvey one so it would be nice to have some get up and go between 40kmh and 60kmh.

The devil inside me says go big or go home and buy the Athena but the voice of reason says get the malosi your less likely to F it up...

I guess I can always swap out the malosi for the Athena after I have a sense of my tune skills.

Side question I picked the Yasuni R pulley based on some random Dynos I saw on the internet any idea how loud it is? Assuming it can't be Harley loud and that is what I am using for reasoning.

_________________
2009 Yamaha BWS 50, Throttle Mod, Dual LED Headlight Mod, Malosi Sport BBK, Yasuni R Exhaust, Malosi Multivar, Polini for race 3 clutch, Mellow yellow springs all arround .


Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:52 pm
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Scooterologist

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm
Posts: 85
scooters and mods: Black 09 BWS
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
zino18 wrote:
For your 2009
You could break 80kms easy with just the Malossi with the stock gears on the 2008
I hit 45 with a 2005 with stock pipe malossi 70 cc
.


So I shouldn't worry about the upgears just a more durable crank and id be good?

I wasn't aware that the factory gearing was different over model years, kinda assumed up gearing is something that you have to do eventually.

_________________
2009 Yamaha BWS 50, Throttle Mod, Dual LED Headlight Mod, Malosi Sport BBK, Yasuni R Exhaust, Malosi Multivar, Polini for race 3 clutch, Mellow yellow springs all arround .


Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:16 pm
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
Any 70 cc is a huge upgrade .
The malossi and athena are not dramatically different.
If I every go up from the malossi it would be to the next class up which is midrace .
But relaibility and the amount of tuning would be more finicky

These are sport bbks so you wont need a crank .
the 2008 has better stock gears for speed than the 2005 .
Gears are something you can do after bbk it will add 5 mph on top of hwat you already have built with the kit and pipe .
2 stroke pipes sound anywhere from a loud chainsaw to a loud weedwacker until the muffler packing blows and then i gets louder.

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:09 am
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Scooterologist

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm
Posts: 85
scooters and mods: Black 09 BWS
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
So I waited to long and now the Yasuni R is out of stock... Says available in 4-10 days. The giannellie shot v4 is available and from what I can find out is that it's comparable to the Yasuni R .07. I dunno if I am going to hold out or not...

New option popped up I can get a stage 6 street race with a pro rep... Bit then I think I need to re plan out the rest of the build.

_________________
2009 Yamaha BWS 50, Throttle Mod, Dual LED Headlight Mod, Malosi Sport BBK, Yasuni R Exhaust, Malosi Multivar, Polini for race 3 clutch, Mellow yellow springs all arround .


Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:29 pm
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
MaxR wrote:
So I waited to long and now the Yasuni R is out of stock... Says available in 4-10 days. The giannellie shot v4 is available and from what I can find out is that it's comparable to the Yasuni R .07. I dunno if I am going to hold out or not...

New option popped up I can get a stage 6 street race with a pro rep... Bit then I think I need to re plan out the rest of the build.



I have heard the stage pro replica is very finnicky and hard to tune (due to its powerband being in a very small area). If you have not had any previous experience I'd wait for the yasuni r as it has a larger powerband so it wont be as hard to tune the cvt to it.

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:12 pm
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Scooterologist

Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 pm
Posts: 85
scooters and mods: Black 09 BWS
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
So my plan is fully shot right now. The store is out of stock on the Malosi sport BBK and the Yasuni R.

My choices now are wait or go full Stage 6.

I can get a Stage 6 street race and Pro rep. I'd assume that they work well together and are likely designed to work together. Anyone have experience with this combo?

Dealer is really recommending I stick with a cast cylinder (not the available Corsa) or a sport aluminum to keep revs down otherwise they say I need to crack the case and do the crank and then do a carb right away.

_________________
2009 Yamaha BWS 50, Throttle Mod, Dual LED Headlight Mod, Malosi Sport BBK, Yasuni R Exhaust, Malosi Multivar, Polini for race 3 clutch, Mellow yellow springs all arround .


Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:43 pm
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
I considered the stage 6 stuff but got a better deal on malossi and next r

Scooterswapshop has the yasuni r and a malossi bbk they also are very helpful with setting you up.
and also have a ton of how to videos online
I buy from 3 different places to get what i need but I have 4 scoots .
scoottuning biggest selection of brands
scooterpartsco best prices on malossi
scooterswapshop good selection and service after sale
you just have to group your purchases for free shipping with any one of them

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Last edited by zino18 on Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:27 pm
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Scooter Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 am
Posts: 138
scooters and mods: 1998 Zuma Prebug
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
MaxR wrote:
So my plan is fully shot right now. The store is out of stock on the Malosi sport BBK and the Yasuni R.

My choices now are wait or go full Stage 6.

I can get a Stage 6 street race and Pro rep. I'd assume that they work well together and are likely designed to work together. Anyone have experience with this combo?

Dealer is really recommending I stick with a cast cylinder (not the available Corsa) or a sport aluminum to keep revs down otherwise they say I need to crack the case and do the crank and then do a carb right away.



BBK's dont determine whether you need to get a better crank; a pipe will determine that and seeing that you want to get a yasuni r or a stage 6 pro you'll definitely need a crank upgrade nonetheless. Reason being is that these pipes will easily go past 10k+ rpms into the 11-12k rpms. Now choosing your bbk, I have heard the single ring pistons are better performing that the double ring pistons so you can either get the athena (I own it and it's great), corsa or stage 6 mk2.

If you dont want a crank upgrade just yet then you can install a tachmeter and make sure your revs dont go over 9.5-10k rpms however you may as well get a crank as you are just limiting your power made as the pipes can rev so much higher.

_________________
'98 Zuma Prebug

70cc Athena w/ BR9HS, 17.5mm Carb (82MJ, clip 1 from bottom), 9.9:1 final drive, 4.4g rollers, LV 5k clutch springs, LV TT Pipe

Current max speed ~93kmh(58mph) @ 9.7k rpm

Build Project: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28663


Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:28 pm
Profile
Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
A 20 dollar tach is great for tuning and insuring that you are not revving to the moon.

The dyno sheets show pipes without rider weight and wind resistance so they tend to rev high and tail off slowly .
In the real world when you use a tach you will see the wind and your weight will act as a big break on peak rpms .
I can only go above 10k rpms if I drop the roller weights way too low to be useful and have the wind at my back going down hill.
My real peak rpms is mid 9s with the trans tuned right

The yasuni r and stage 6 pro rep are running revs past the Next r on the dynos and way past the leo vince
I had the leo with athena sport and she would be done mid 9s in the real world .

So Tassy is right continually running in the red shortens the life of your crank and those pipes definetely flirt closer too the line .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:42 pm
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Silver Member
Silver Member

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:18 pm
Posts: 624
Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin
scooters and mods: 2 2004 Vinos 2004 Zuma
Post Re: Little help with my shopping cart.
Probably a better way is to look at where you want to end up speed wise and how much are you going too spend and then factor in your skill level.
After you install the bbk and pipe the more extreme you go the more extreme tuning you have to get right in the transmission to dial it to the overlapping powerbands of your pipe and bbk.
Otherwise you will be very frustrated with why all the power is not getting to the rear wheel .
You just need to go slow and change one variable at a time.
for example
Stage 1 Install bkk jet carb break in with stock pipe
Stage 2 Add the variator adjust the weights with new contra in stock clutch for bbk powerband
Stage 3 Install pipe rejet carb if necessary, adjust weights for pipe then add the clutch with new contra from stage 2 and springs to adjust take off for the pipes powerband .
This way you learn what each part incrementally does .

_________________
2004 Vinos Derestricted exhaust and variator stock carb with mikuni 70 main jet needle down 1 clip 40 mph
Athena Sport BBK waiting to go on

2004 Vino Malossi sport 70cc Malossi Wild Lion pipe malossi multivar 6.5 sliders green polini clutch springs stock carb 75 mikuni main one clip rich 47.5 mph Michelin S1 90/90/10 rear tire Michelin S1 3" x 10 up front

2004 Zuma Malossi sport 70 cc Technigas next r 2008 zuma torque driver polini high speed variator 5.5 grams sliders malossi delta clutch yellow contra yellow clutch springs Stock Carb 84 main jet 46 pilot jet needle 1 clip rich stock athena 14/42 gears 11 to 1 final ratio 56 mph

2005 Eton Beamer (Taiwan Zuma Clone) Airsal sport 70cc 9200 peak rpm top speed 42 77.5 mikuni jet needle 1 clip rich (sold)


Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:25 pm
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